New Green Jack New Green Jack

53 responses to “Nemesis Latest”

    • gregor margetson

      Great news that the car is coming to the finishing stages at last. The phrase ‘want one’ springs to mind….

      Good luck for the endurance run. Having Kryton as co-pilot should be a gas!!

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Great stuff! Good to hear that progress is being made and look forward to the ‘events’.

      I was thinking as I was reading… this car appears to be developing into a design that a car manufacturer could produce a car with. I imagine they would have to develop it for production and make it a little cheaper, but it’s a possibility after you make however many vehicles you want to make, is it not? Just thinking aloud anyway.

        • Eric

          I think something like that already exists. It is called a Tesla Roadster. It also has a longer range.

            • paul

              Hi Eric,

              Yeah – we heard something about that Left Hand Drive, Lotus based Tesla thingy… some guy who works/worked for the company came on here and tried to persuade Dale to buy one a year or two ago…


              ETA: I notice there are Right Hand Drive Models in existence now, which is nice. What’s this about production of the Roadster stopping next year though?

                • Eric

                  The lotus line is closing and Tesla will produce an extra year’s worth to meet demand until they get their own factory running where they will produce the Model S and the next generation Roadster.

                  I am curious though, how much Dale has spent in producing his Nemisis, which he doesn’t plan to produce more of. I mean, if we like green and energy efficiency, what is better, get a production EV with better range and available sooner, or hire a team to build one completely from scratch? Which is greener?

                    • dale Vince

                      Hi Eric,

                      When we started with the idea of the Nemesis the Tesla wasn’t available and we hadn’t heard of it. As we progressed so did Tesla.

                      Several people have said to me why bother, and we could have stopped anytime I guess and just left it to Tesla and now others. But our car is different, very different to the Tesla.

                      We’ve spent a year or so and several hundred thousand pounds on our car from scratch (well from a doner car on e-bay to be precise).

                      I understand that Tesla have taken many years and hundreds of millions of $s to get to where they are.

                      Two very different approaches, two very different cars.

                      The need for EV’s is huge, the best route to the most economical and efficient cars will be the one with max innovation, numerous players and numerous approaches.

                      We’re happy to be pitching in.

                      And our first car will have spin offs, we’ve learnt much.


            • Harvey

              may be you should put the price down for ecotricity because then more people will buy it and

              1.the world will be a better place

     will end up getting more customers

     will get more money for new ideas

              yours sincerly

              Harvey (age nine)

                • The Ville

                  Oh the power of anonymity!

                  The Ville (aged 200)

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Dale,

      Will Kryton be doing an extended Car Pool video? It has the potential to be Dale and Bob’s Excellent Adventure. It should give Jezza, Captain Slow and the Hamster a bit of inspiration for taking up the petrol(free)head challenge for their races.

      Given that you do not have any windmills north of Dundee are you going to have to rely on the goodwill of your rivals to recharge at their windfarms as you pass through the Highlands? Or will you be equipped with the names and addresses of local Ecotricity customers so that you can call in and buy back some of your own power?

      Whatever – it sounds like a blokey blast. Have fun and good luck!

      Best regards,


        • dale Vince

          Hi Jonny, We’re hoping to shoot a video of this, excellent adventure as you say…..:) And I’m sure you’re right that it will be.

          No windmills north of Dundee as you say – we have a 240 mile gap to plug. Definitely hoping to either plug in to someone else’s windmills or find an ecotricity customer. Not solved that one yet.


            • Derek


              This website could help you for charge points for the Nemesis


                • dale Vince

                  Thanks Derek, that’s a very interesting site, might even help us plug our ‘north of Dundee gap’ – we’ll check it out.


                    • Derek


                      I see Ecotricity is mentioned on the “Why install electric car charge points” page on

                      Good luck with the drive from John O’Groats to Lands End and I patiently wait for you to produce a production car to buy.


    • Chris

      Nice. It’s great to see that you’re using this opportunity to challenge some of the common EV-phobias out there! Like speed limitations and charging source. I can’t help wondering if the success of EVs in Britain might depend on the success of wind? One would certainly spur the other on anyway.

      I really hope that this car or a version of makes it to market though. If you don’t have the free capital I would encourage you to try find it from somewhere!! I hear Deborah Meaden from Dragons Den likes green ideas!! 😉

        • dale Vince

          Thanks Chris, I’d like to think there will be other vehicles springing from this first project. We do have another car under design, which will require some biggish funding.

          But before that I think we’ll whip up a wind powered tractor. Hope to kick that project of shortly, should only take a few months now we’ve done the hard part.


    • Nick Palmer

      Definitely cool. It’s got to work right first time all the way down the country – couldn’t stand Clarkson smirking if Nemesis meets its Nemesis round about spaghetti junction…

        • dale Vince

          Hi Nick, agreed it needs up to the job. Nobody wants a smirking Clarkson….:)

          We’ll be giving it a big shake down on the track in a few more weeks now – looking to ensure the batteries stay cool (under full load), optimising the road handling and testing endurance. And testing the fast capability.

          I’ve a lot of faith in the team building this.


    • Damon Hart-Davis

      Hey Dale,

      You should say “vacuum cleaner” and avoid genericising anyone’s trademark, as in:

      “You’re taking so much British Gas” or “You must be EDFing joking!” or other such no-nos… Well, not quite the same, but you get my drift!



        • dale Vince

          Like it………:)

    • steve thayne

      Souns great Dale,

      I drove my berlingo from fife to shropshire in 36 hours, not using fast charging and with its range of 60 miles. Having the tyre pressure right up high 9to lower the rolling resistance) and then keeping at a constant speed certainly helped get the most miles per charge.

      This was a journey of neccesity to get the van fixed, and I used a mixture of friends, caravan sites (including the one at tebay, the only independently owned service station in the country and a beautiful place to watch the lake district sun come up while eating a locally sourced breakfast and waiting for the van to charge. Particularly handy as i could call in 24 hours.)

      Evan in Fife has fast charge infrastructure in for himself, if fife is not too far off your route. he is also an invaluable technical resource, having just built his own lithium powered car. He has contacted you on here before, but let me know if you need his contact details.

      Best of luck with it, steve

        • dale Vince

          Hi Steve, that’s an impressive trip with just a 60 mile range and no fast charge.

          Not sure if Fife is on the way or not (plan is still fluid anyhow), but it might be handy to have a chat with Evan. can you drop me his e-mail or something?

          Thanks Steve.


    • david broom

      Looks very impressive, Its a shame you didnt attend the Alternative energy drag racing at santa pod the other day. In the fully electric class, included tesla and an even faster electric beetle running 11secs in the 1/4 mile, a couple other enteries including my converted golf.
      I’m sure you could have given tesla a run for their money!

      By the way, I have recently switched over to Ecotricity so i guess i’m running a partly wind powered car too. 🙂


    • dale Vince

      Hi David,

      Santa Pod sounds like fun, maybe we’ll enter next year, no doubt we could give the Tesla a run…..:)

      Glad to hear you’ve joined us – and good to hear of another wind powered car..


    • steve thayne

      Hi Dale,

      Evan is contactable at

      Are you anticipating the government grants of up to £5000 off the price of electric cars, and the mass roll out of electric cars from detroit electric, mitsubishi etc from January 2011? Would be good to see some sort of tie in or promotion with ecotricity if that could be made to make business sense for you?

      Best wishes, Steve

    • The Ville

      I’m wondering what Dale thinks of the price tag of the Nissan leaf?

      Some £23,000 I believe.

      Have Nissan over engineered the thing?
      Should they have made it more ‘basic’?

    • Dave

      @The Ville. The price tag of the Nissan leaf is awesome. They are breaking new ground. It’s certainly not overengineered. Check out this interesting article about the price:

      @everyone– Check out our converted Radical electric vehicle, built in about 8 months by a group of very talent Imperial College students and graduates. We just made it twice around the M25 on one charge! Bring on the future!

        • Dave

          sorry – website is ! follow us on twitter too, ‘RGEndurance’

            • The Ville

              The over engineered comment was probably a poor use of words, I meant that it wasn’t basic enough, hence all the added modern gizmos hike the initial price up.

              They aren’t going to sell into a mainstream market initially in any case and someone who would be interested in buying one for eco reasons would be happy to not bother with sat nav and a dishwasher (joke) built in.

              I really think that the mainstream manufacturers will make a mess of it mainly because it is to new for them. It’s a new paradigm but they are going about it like headless chickens and reverting to what they know.

              BTW I like what you Imperial College students are doing, you remind me of those films of 1920s/1930s engineering pioneers building faster boats, cars and airplanes.

    • newena martin

      I hope you get your next trips on TV, once you’re happy with it all working well! I know he’s a petrol head but he is a caring person and loves beautiful machines that are fun to drive and handle. So I just wondered if when you’ve got the fast charge battery sorted, and the length of GB trip under your belt, if planning a journey using only electric vehicles charged by green sources, with Charley Boorman and having it all on TV with him as well, would get masses of publicity for new customers? I dont actually have TV! and haven’t seen the film work, but I’ve just read the ‘By Any Means’ book and they wrote pertinently about the most toxic place on earth in the first gulf oil fields area and used TUC TUCs and bought one and used tractors too, which you are investing in. Maybe this kind of extra exposure would be good for more customers?. Anyway Dale, thank you for the many avenues you are investing in … You are the only positive thing that cheers me up right now! love and light, newena

    • Jeffrey Lam

      @The Ville the Leaf’s price is certainly high compared to a comparable petrol/diesel car, but this has nothing to do with over-engineering. Car production is a high-investment business. When you throw in a new technology (ok batteries and motors are not new, but their use in cars are new), and a low volume, you can expect a higher price.
      But if you want to compare it to a comparable electric car, what is there to compare it to? Not a lot!

        • The Ville

          The Think City is about £14,000 (2008 price), nearly 10 grand less.

          Personally I think these new generation electric cars need to be stripped down to basics. I think that needs to be done with all cars really.

          Get rid of the fancy gizmos.

          Maybe that can be re-introduced later.

            • Dave

              The high prices of EVs are almost exclusively because batteries are expensive. Motors and power electronics too, but mainly batteries. The ‘think’ is not really a proper car that people will buy. Too small, too much like the G-wiz. The Leaf and the iMiev are more like it, I reckon.

                • The Ville

                  You are missing the point.

                  The Think is functionally similar to a Smart Car.
                  If you add a back row of seats, extend the chassis and body, you aren’t adding 10 grand worth of materials, design and manufacturing.

                  The definition of a proper car has to fit in with what will have long term sustainability. That means cutting back on gizmos and thinking differently.

                • Jonny Holt

                  Hello Dave et al,

                  Car companies plan years in advance and specify the cars they design according to their assessment of future market conditions. This means they try to second guess peoples future expectations, bank balances, lifestyles and social mores.

                  Your phrase “a proper car that people will buy” is thus a moving target. We have been conditioned to believe that certain attributes are entirely reasonable features of our cars but will this stay broadly the same? I think we are going to have to reappraise these expectations radically in the near future. What toys are people going to dispense with when petrol passes £2.00 / £3.00 / £4.00 per litre? What will we need to give up when EVs become more prevalent and we have to compete harder – or pay more – for every kilowatt to recharge our car batteries? Never mind peak oil – what about the availability of lithium, iridium, lanthanum, and rare earth metals generally? Will cities, faced with gridlock, put limits on the size of car allowed onto their streets? Ultimately our appetites for comfort and convenience need to be curtailed and it will be done by the market or legislation – or by less benign forces.

                  This will all radically change our view of what constitutes an ordinary car, in terms of fuel source, fuel economy, performance, specification, mass, size and seating capacity. The idea that people will continue to buy the same size of car as they do at the moment is extremely optimistic.

                  Best regards,


                    • Damon Hart-Davis

                      “Ultimately our appetites for comfort and convenience need to be curtailed” is the sort of thing that frightens non-greenies (especially of the louder and more libertarian US kind) and convinces them that it’s all a conspiracy to rob them of a life worth living.

                      I agree entirely that expectations will have to change, in ways that end up with less energy being used for example, but I’m simply not at all convinced that that means less comfort and convenience.

                      For example, I find driving unpleasant enough that though I do it occasionally I don’t own a car at all and never have, and always use public transport where possible, else hire for the shortest possible interval. The most convenient sort of car for me is generally none at all.

                      Not so for everyone, but there’s lots of happy people in this world without even the utilities we take for granted, so strike out the *necessity* in your assumption I say!



                    • Dave

                      I agree with the sentiment you guys are expressing (that we need an overall more sustainable lifestyle, that peak oil will hit us, that we should try to live without cars etc.) but you need to bear in mind that 92% of domestic UK transport is by road at the moment, and that the majority of people don’t even think twice about using a car in the UK.

    • Neil

      I was looking at your work with regard to charging the vehicle and was wondering what connector you are going to use for fast-charging it.

      It may seem a silly question but in digging around it seems a few organisations have there own ideas of what it should be (usually their own solution) and I wondered what your thoughts were?

      I ‘m hoping our brave new electric world doesn’t involve my mum having to carry around a bag of adaptors!

    • Alex

      Hi Dale,

      I have everything crossed we can finally have the Nemesis in the Eco-Rally this year! I am biased but our line up is looking amazing this year. We have most of the elements mentioned in this thread represented from Imperial to Tesla!! No tractor though but a few vans!!

      Best regards,

    • newena martin

      Hi Dale and everyone who blogs about the green electric saloon car Nemesis…
      I just want to say that while I agree with a need for very small economical cars to be developed and widely and easily available, and yes we do need to strip down our perceived needs and be much less consumerist and more basic in many areas, there is another way of looking at all this too…viz:
      Once the energy is all ‘surface, sound and sane, surface, safe and sane, surface, safe and sense’ as I wrote in a new anti-oil lyric yesterday for the open mic nite! – then we wont need to be so puritanical and stingy with our use of it – will we !? That kind of nail-biting anxiety is typical of our negative programming – cart before horse and ambulance at bottom of cliff instead of fence at top… we need to stand above that millennia of programming and see it in oursleves.
      With the technology available we have gained from space travel – which I dont think we now should be doing any more !! – but spending the Mars trillions on sorting planet earth’s energy with that dosh instead ! – we surely can have a very comfortable green lifestyle. There is a need to be able to be inspirationally creative and to have beautiful, exciting and pleasurable things in our lives. – What is being physically manifest in a body really all about ? If we had got the ‘surface, safe and sane’ energy right years ago, we would have shown real evolutionary intelligence!
      OK, Nemesis can only be afforded by a small majority of folks, but it’s very important to get its concept, beauty and possibilities into the public imagination – that will ‘fire’ new investment! Lets be honest and frank about the fact that wealthier people buying this model will help everything green thats currently far too long term, become shorter term! and Nemesis is this. We need to strike the public imagination and inspire them – that helps to get more customers for the ‘surface, safe, sound, sane’ investment increase, since ofcourse the Gov. are unlikely to spend the Mars trillions on giving every house, office, ship, train and factory solar roofs, – which they should – ofcourse.
      Going first for a green little bitty neat city parker, wont do the same job for us all inspirationally and eye openingly and we also need a more powerful and larger size service van for all those drivers that cant get on the bus or a bike to and do food deliveries, service businesses, schools hospitals and shops or mend washing machines, gas or water pipes, or even to service electricity pylons and read meters! – We need the tractors and the buses too. But proving the length of journey and the power with the inspirational beauty and pleasure of Nemesis is the best way to get the ball rolling faster.
      I think the planet is giving us so many timely kicks up the ass right now, – gulf of mexico oil spill, Bhobal gas leak verdict, another gas accident elsewhere, – can any ordinary person NOT now get the message about mining and transferring underground toxins by pipes being a hellish and stupid system?
      Yes, I am also concerned about the need for rare earths like lithium and iridium being needed and I hope that research will be paramount to try and design these out and/or find various local substitutes, so everyone can have their batteries locally made and be independent with them…and I think it was the layer of iridium that coated the planet from a comet hit, that wiped out the dinosaurs…
      Scientists know that mining causes the earth’s tectonic plates to bulge and creep and sag over a 100 years maybe, and under oceans and continents, so we are now getting WORSE tsunamis and volcanoes than we would if earth was calming and ageing naturally, – due the mining we started with the industrial revolution. It has to stop NOW. Nemesis style inspirational eye opening options and the earth’s current warnings are cosmically synchronicitous.
      I also want to see the cat out of the bag about anti gravity vehicles, I wish the Mars trillions were spent on that too.

    • Phil

      As a motorsport fan, I’m immensely pleased to see the route Nemesis and the Radical team are taking. Like it or not, personal transportation isn’t going away, so we need to capture people’s imagination rather than just focus on worthy but dull city cars. Competition has driven so many vehicle innovations in the past and there’s no reason to think it won’t in the future. Love to see Nemesis at Santa Pod, not to mention going for the speed record. Maybe even let The Stig loose in it one day 🙂

    • Clare Jane Mcvety

      A fan is situated under the bonnet of the car which generates power. This is then stored in a battery.

      The car has to be moving to work. So what will happen if the car runs out of power? The wind will go through the grill and then start the fan which creates power that will be stored in the battery for later use
      Also the power, that the brakes create when used, will power to the battery.
      The car has dynamos in the wheels to work the lights like the old bicycles used to have.

      Thank you Clare Mcvety
      Just thougth of this idea and you mite like this

    • eric nueman

      I don’t know any engineers to ask my question but here goes, because you’ve allowed sharing on your site much more “normal” than others.
      Since I’ve been blogging about EVs & their advantages, I’ve come to some conclusions.
      One is the charge system for EVs that can possibly recharge in motion to sustain your batteries as in conventional cars. Is this kind of thinking far fetched? What’s being done about it that’s progressive so that recharing offline becomes a thing of the past!
      Ps. I know if a fuel generator is used this makes your vehical a hybrid but wouldn’t the trade off help enormously?

        • The Ville

          No it isn’t far fetched Eric although such a system requires infrastructure to do the charging.

          Actually the main area of interest for ‘on the fly’ charging is with trains and trams. There are developments in electrical induction charging systems for buses/trams and trains, for charging them as they move along roads or tracks.

          Basically the bus or tram would have batteries on board and would follow a route where cables are embedded in the ground. Then a coil on the vehicle picks up the electromagnetic field generated by the underground cable and produces a current in the coil to charge the batteries as the vehicle moves along. The current could also directly power the motors if the batteries were flat.

          The advantage is that there are no overhead cables and as long as the batteries are charged, the vehicle could be diverted from the cabled route without loss of power. The disadvantage is the energy losses inherent in the induction coupling. The electromagnetic field has to jump an air gap, so there will be losses.

          Such systems could work for cars, but it would be a big investment.

          The other possibility is to have induction charging at bus stops, parking places, traffic lights etc, where vehicles are likely to stop for minutes or hours.

          I did have some links to tram systems being developed, if I find them, I’ll post them.

            • eric nueman

              Thanks for the quick reply with interesting info. to consider! Sincerely eric

                • newena martin

                  Hello Eric and Ville and everyone,

                  I’m very health conscious and aware that emfs can be health damaging. Can you explain in simple terms if the conductor charges than jump into the buses would be a health hazard for the passengers and drivers – very important since they are in it all day/ everyday!

                  I really want travelling by public transport to be safe an healthy and totally green and also goods and services transport too. Though going local with Transition Towns and getting locally sourced food self sufficient is my focus now to cut down transporting so much stuff anyway. Just a pity some elements for the batteries have to come from other countries and geologies isn’t it – THAT needs looking at to find alternatives for the rare earths I think….

                  What I have been dreaming about is a moving solar or even wind (movement) charging technology..Is that even vaguely possible and being researched anywhere?!

                  I think the infrastructure as you say re underground cables is counter-productive in expense and it also worries me that one doesn’t want to be forced to live near it. If it was at stations, lights and parking lots Ok but under all the roads?

                  I dont like mobile phone masts and the police wavelength Tetra masts – that wavelength makes the police sick -and also I can ‘feel’ them from a quarter mile away. But at least you can CHOOSE to avoid them and keep away if you can see them…

                  I dont like the tubes either because they have gas in that’s very toxic and if they get cracked no one will know but it will be poisoning us – again- industrial revolution mining of gas and oil for 200 years has caused tectonic plate movement and causes more tsunamis/floods and volcanoes, pain and death than the planet would have occasioned in her own natural non human interfered changing patterns –

                  Its sure that the underground heat taking will freeze the ground and affect plants and wildlife but all you need is your perma-cultured garden and lots of insects for pollination and honey or you have no food chain – no life! -so lets think more widely about what we do to the earth underground.
                  Maybe there are unhealthy emfs from solar panels too – I cant begin to think about this. But somehow I FEEL the freely given energy of wind wave and sun are going to be less insidious long term.


                    • The Ville

                      Oh, where do you start??
                      Your comment Newena covers a lot of unrelated subjects.

                      The electromagnetic field in such a case would be very low frequency and would have a short range.

                      Your probably talking about 50hz signals, which isn’t very harmful. Generally speaking, the higher the frequency the greater the damage to humans and 50hz is practically zero on the harmful scale. Every home has similar weak 50hz fields all over the house and they have been in the home ever since electricity became common.
                      It isn’t the same as microwaves which are used for transmitting data or cooking.

                      I mentioned in my previous comment that the air gap between the cable/coil in the ground and the one in the vehicle causes losses in the transfer of energy between the two.

                      That should give you an indication relating to how engineers are likely to design a system. They won’t want a lot of losses.
                      This means they will design the system so that the electro-magnetic field does not cover a bigger air space than absolutely necessary.

                    • The Ville

                      Just to add to my previous reply.
                      A 5ohz emf signal isn’t capable of directly inducing vibrations or movement in molecules.
                      Unlike microwaves, which heat food by causing water molecules to rotate and transfer that energy to other molecules.
                      Going further up the frequency scale, you have infrared frequencies that can cause vibrations in water molecules and greenhouse gases. eg. infrared has more energy than microwaves, or a 50hz signal.
                      If you go further up the scale then ultraviolet can excite molecules more, doing damage and gamma waves (which are very high frequency) can actually damage molecular structure.

                      So, I hope that gives some context to the differences between different frequencies and energies involved. Not all emfs are the same and in fact we would all be dead without some of them.

                    • eric nueman

                      That’s what this new field in electric vehicles is all about. Trial & error & investing time, energy, & finances into something wide open for inventivness ie. the electric vehicle! Questions must be asked before investing to solve effciency of the vehicle & infastructure for these kind of systems relating to an electric car over fuel driven vehicles. That said, I believe the car industry has always been responsible for eliminating health hazards from Oil based vehicles which to me have caused so much damage to the environment we all know now is exponentially counter productive! Electric vehicles have more of a chance of being less hazardous than oil based ones when multiplied millions of times! So it’s worth persuing by all means to save the planet by every means as soon as possibe.

    • Hartley

      Hello Dale and everyone,

      Have I missed an update-what is the status of the car now- how are things looking? Would love to hear!

      Alex from Revolve (Eco-Rallies etc…!)

    • newena martin

      Thank you, The Ville, for this info. Its just what I needed reassurance about. It’s brilliant that the blog can provide a precis teaching and learning opportunity and I trust your views on the safety of this for drivers etc because its here in Dale’s blog you are active!
      I want to comment that actually everything is connected though, and part of the western initiated demise of the planet’/our environment has come about through the filing system and separation into boxes of western education – that we are now trying to unpick.

      Its important to get an overview and consider all aspects we can possibly be aware of and search for more ll the time because otherwise we get blinkered down blind alleys sometimes and don’t realise for years we have been doing something unhealthy because it was so fascinating down that alley! and just because to succeed and make things work regardless of health or other connected effects, is a powerful motivator.

      I dont give a microwave house room and worry about my computer emf and the electric cooker level too but I cant afford an emf meter tester. I keep a big salt lamp on top of the screen, and I do zap my home with ultra violet and clean the bed with it in the morning but dont stay in the ultra violet myself. You can destroy parasite stages in foods with an ultra violet light or a ;zappicator – (which I dont have). If you were a cancer sufferer and following Dr. H. R. Clark’s later findings you can do this also as part of your detox and healing and preventative practice.
      I healed myself from acute dental poisoning using only her protocols 12 years ago and I owe my life, health and happiness to her -I did nothing the quacks suggested, as I could see it was downward spiral into a wheelchair ! But you have to do it ALL and its all connected! – one bit alone doesn’t work!!

      I also ozonate and ionise my house air in winter when the windows are all shut to save the heat !

      Anyway, its horses for courses, but hopefully we can see each other over the fences of the tracks or lanes – and together we will make good systems and have cooperative harmony and health, running together in easy flowing corves like a sine wave pattern, which I love.. . and no tangled knots! I am grateful for people with specialist knowledge like you who can short circuit my gaps in understanding of stuff. Thank you.

    • Roberto Cazador

      Is anybody using Altairnano’s App. kit? How much time would the system would had saved building the Nemesis?