New Green Jack New Green Jack

131 responses to “The Nemesis has landed”

    • Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

      Covering this event for AllCarsElectric, I was also frustrated by the way in which some of the drivers were behaving. I had a co-driver who was transfixed by illogical range anxiety and nearly had a heart attack when I took over the wheel and started to accelerate to 50 mph. He soon asked to drive again and we were back to the dangerous, illogical driving style.


      Wish I’d been in Nemisis!


    • The Ville

      It’s a great car, but are you going to do anything to reduce the volume of noise in the cockpit??

        • Jeffrey Lam

          Should have based it on an Evora rather than an Exige! The Evora addressed the problem of noise in the Elise and its family… Maybe Dale should speak to Lotus again…

        • newena martin

          Well Done Dale and all the team – I am SO encouraged by this success and continued work you are doing. I participate in Transition Towns and we run monthly film nights and last month we showed ‘Who killed the Electric Car’. I was in tears at the destruction and corruption. Afterwards I cheered up and thought ‘But this wont happen with Dale’s inventions as he will refuse to sell them to anyone who will shelve them to simply keep the oil lines infrastructure going for toxic profit’. It is an old film and excuse me if its been mentioned before – I haven’t been in on the blog since the start.. But in that film the car seemed very quiet to be in and so I was also surprized how loud it is in the video in the Nemesis ‘cockpit’ – as its been called ! What was the difference that made the original General Motors withdrawn and crushed electric cars quieter? If they really were! –
          Also a while back Dale was having problems with the charging variants at different points and so in that film I was so impressed with their plug in charge hand sized insulated U bolt thing and obviously the charging stations were designed to be ready for this kind of fill-up. But I suppose any three pin plug as Dale now describes he is using has gotta be better than a special new widget that needs consumptive production and accepting instalations along the way… Parking spaces for it and the sufficient voltage/supply/ power/ whateva seem to be the main design ‘garage’ support issues…
          Anyway, with the Eco Bonds and the green power you are making Dale, I dont believe this can be sabotaged again!

          SO exciting – One of the few sane, hopeful things happening on the planet where digging up the earth to go to Mars and deflect meteorites has now finally been admitted to !
          Any explanations/options on the noise welcome… maybe in that old film they just never wound it up as fast as you did in the video!?

    • Chris Elliott

      Hey Dale … a satisfying build time and result. Respect I like your style Dude.

      Are you ready to move onto a new and more exciting project like moving a continous row of artics on independent platforms along an electric road that runs from the UAE up thru Saudia and along the North African coast to opposite Gilbralta or past it if they build the tunnel. Its powered by RE even after an ELE has blotted out the sun and with it the wind and rain. Oh and it also makes fresh water as a by product. If you are interested in going global dude, drop me an email its only part of an whole raft of ideas that I am patenting. Chris.

    • keith gerrard

      Hi Dale
      Great result.
      I was glad to see you took an interest in Wing Commander Ken Wallis MBE and his light autogyros, with a view to perhaps helping us build the WORLDS first all electric rotary winged aircraft.
      (with a sensible endurance and role capability)
      I spent part of last Sunday with Ken Wallis in the company of Chris Barrie, who had a look at one of Kens machines and declared an interest. Perhaps you might mention this to Robert Llewellyn, we are looking for a new test pilot.
      An electric version of Kens aircraft would rapidly result in a large production potential in the UK with lots of jobs and economic benefits Dale.

    • Chris Elliott

      Dale … your highly commendable plan has one major flaw, no sun = no wind and no rain = no wind power. Do I have a feesible (idiots) solution, Yes! Have I got any money. No!

      Mount St Helens. May 18th, 1980, 8:32 am (PDT). Eruption was triggered by a 5.1 earthquake centered beneath the mountain.

      The massive ash cloud grew to 80,000 feet (18 kilometers) in 15 minutes and reached the east coast in 3 days. Although most of the ash fell within 300 miles of the mountain, finer ash circled the earth in 15 days and may continue to stay in the atmosphere for many years.

      The amount of ash thrown into the air was 0.26 cu.miles.

      This year the plane grounding Icelandic Eruption only put ½ cubic mile of ash into the atmosphere. Rose to half the height of Mount St Helens.

      In December 2008, continuing into January 2009, more than 500 quakes were detected under the northwest end of Yellowstone Lake over a seven day span, with the largest registering a magnitude of 3.9. The most recent swarm started in January 2010. With 1620 small earthquakes between January 17, 2010 and February 1, 2010, this swarm was the second largest ever recorded in the Yellowstone Caldera.

      Present predictions of the Yellowstone ash cloud is 600 cubic miles or 577 times the ash cloud from Mount St Helens. Ash would be deposited over 9,000 miles. The whole of the US a meter deep in ash. The cloud around the earth would be 500 times denser. i.e. forget the planes NO SUN!

      The Yellowstone super volcano is huge: Mount St. Helens crater is about 2 square miles. The Yellowstone crater, or more properly called a “caldera” depression, is about 1,500 square miles. The Global Extinction Event euruption force 10,000 greater that Mount St Helens.

      The brief World War 3 would be started by the Americans hunting for fresh food, after 3 weeks that would be tinned food. WE have no defence but there is a way to start and compenate for that outcome or a strike by a planet killing Asteroid of more that 2 kilometers wide.

      In 2002, a scary 200 metre Asteroid EM7 passed within 300.000 of the Earth (thats just the other side of the moon you can see in the sky tonight) but was only discovered 4 days after it passed as it came at us out of the sun’s glare. A asteroid like that hitting Nottingham would leave a big hole/lake between the South Coast and Scottish border. Gone Nothing Zip Nana! Of course, no one would have to worry about rising sea levels for the last 2 months of their lives. We invented umbrella’s for when it rains, we just need to think bigger. In the Cold War we took 10% of the GDP to fend off the Russian, we need to support the same commitment to a bigger darker threat. Chris

    • Dean

      Will you be letting the Top Gear team loose with the Nemesis just to prove you can make electric cars that are fun and very fast?
      Before you do that though maybe you should put some insulation in the cabin as it does seem very noisy on the video.
      But overall well done to you and your team, good job done!

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Sorry to change the subject again! But did anyone see the BBC series “The Secret Life of the National Grid”?

        • keith gerrard

          The national grid and the future development of it, is the most important issue in the potential future of EVs.
          Until re-charging facilities are established in at least the same numbers as petrol stations, EV vehicles will not progress very far. Electric cars can be far more convenient, efficient and practical than ic cars if the grid is developed to support them.
          This does not rely on alternate energy production either, although doing so will reduce CO2 and pollution by a huge amount. Surely this is where to campaign.

        • The Ville

          Yes. I was disappointed that the programme didn’t cover the future. Could have added an extra episode with that.

          But it did show that the current grid needed a lot of new ideas about how to link everything up. We take it for granted today, but it required a lot of innovation to get to where we are now.

          The point being that people should not be afraid of more innovation.

            • keith gerrard

              The programs on the grid were a hint for attention on the future but the program makers did not have the guts to cover future suggestions.
              Far to politicaly sensitive.
              The whole thing needs a major campaign.

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Hey I was just thinking: the idea of drivers wiping their windscreens instead of using the demist reinforces the idea that Dale is trying to break. But on the other hand, demisting the screen (or having the heating on) reduces the range on an electric car much more than on an ICE car.

      So that raises the question, how should electric cars address this issue?

      As far as demist goes, a front-heated windscreen should do the trick (can’t work out if Ford’s patent on it has run out yet though), otherwise a fuel-fired heater might do it. Perhaps the fuel-fired heater would also solve issues of heating.

        • keith gerrard

          EV cabin heating certainly needs the development of more efficient electric heaters, however, as the EV will already be plugged in on charge over cold nights, it will be easy to pre heat the cabin and screens before the trip is started.

            • The Ville

              More efficient heating!??

              Heat is a loss by definition!
              In order to be more ‘efficient’ a heater needs to be less efficient.
              heh, heh, heh.

                • keith gerrard

                  Heat is a loss by definition?
                  Hmm strange concept.

                    • The Ville

                      You normally want all your energy doing work, eg turning wheels. If it isn’t, it’s a loss, mostly heat or noise.

                      A car engines efficiency is defined by the work it does, the energy that isn’t converted into kinetic energy is a loss.

                      I think what you mean is better insulation, ducts etc. to keep the heat in. Admittedly in an electric car there is a balance to be had between a freezing cold cabin and wasting a lot energy producing heat to keep the passengers warm.
                      But I wouldn’t really call that an ‘efficiency’ issue.

                    • keith gerrard

                      I know exactly what I mean.
                      Heat is a form of energy not a loss of any sort.
                      A more efficient heater is one that produces more heat for less energy input.
                      A car engines ‘efficiency’ can be defined in a number of ways.
                      One is thermal efficiency another is mechanical efficiency and there are many others.
                      Better insulation, ducting etc will make a heating source more effective. This may or may not improve efficiency.

                    • The Ville

                      The basics of mechanics is that heat is generated and it is a loss.

                      eg. you start with your fuel, that has embedded energy. In an ideal world when converting that fuels energy into mechanical work, the amount of work done is exactly the same as the embedded energy. In the real world, that never happens and the largest chunk of the losses is usually heat.

                      In an internal combustion engined car those heat losses are partly ‘recovered’ and used to heat the passenger compartment, however they do obviously eventually escape.

                      In an electric car, you have higher levels of energy conversion to mechanic work. So you have fewer losses. But you don’t want the passengers to freeze, so you have to create heat from electricity. You stick a resistive element drawing current, translating that electricity into heat. Now there isn’t any work being done, just heat generation, so you can only making it more ‘efficient’ by increasing the ‘inefficiency’ of the resistive element, thus increasing heat production!

                      The power dissipated in a resistive heating element is quite fundamental and the equations are well known. Unless it is doing something else other than dissipating power as heat, then it is doing the best it can, if it was vibrating or something, then you might call that a loss, because it isn’t doing what you designed it to do.
                      The only efficiency weak points would be the fan, blowing the air past the heating element, the electronic controller and insulation gaps.
                      The only loss I can think of in the actual heating element is the emission of electromagnetic radiation in the visible range (when it glows red). But even that will heat the surfaces around it producing IR radiation. So all, in all, not much ‘loss’ at the heating element.

                      My jest of a comment was based on the fact that the vast majority of engineering projects try and minimise energy loss, that’s why the Nemesis accelerates so fast. But the problem with humans is that they like keeping warm and in this modern world, they prefer wearing T-shirts in the winter!
                      So an electric car has to create ‘losses’ or simulate the losses of an internal combustion engine to keep the driver warm. It would be better to wear 5 layers of clothing.

            • Jeffrey Lam

              Yes pre-heating cabin and windscreen sounds pretty good. However, you still need (/want) to keep both the windscreen and cabin warm during your journey, and let’s say you park it somewhere for a few hours (with nowhere to charge) and then you need to drive off again, no pre-heating available there.

              There isn’t much scope for heaters to get more efficient. Virtually all the energy going into an electric heater becomes heat.

                • keith gerrard

                  Converting electricity to heat is already a very efficient process it is true.
                  Much more efficient in fact than producing heat from the internal combustion cycle as a bi-product.

                  The answer to the heating problem for EVs, is the same as the answer that allows EVs to replace inefficient ic transport in general.
                  The answer is to extend and develop the national grid to include sufficient re-charge facilities at all sites where EVs are parked. This will encourage EV purchase and use.
                  To overcome the rare problem like needing heat in traffic jams on motor ways, and to give a reserve re-charge for distance driving and emergencies, it is also possible to instal induction heating systems in some road sections. These charge systems would also be used while on the move.
                  Of course if EVs replaced ic vehicles, there would no longer be the need to transport and store liquid fuel or pump it around. This would easily halve energy use for vehicles, compared to the ancient system in use today.

                    • Chris Elliott

                      But what if … and I remember one freezing night leaving the interior light on by mistake in my car and the next morning my windows weren’t frozen up like everyone elses. And to my surprise the car started. So what if … while the car was stood getting cold and owner anticipating this had happened to take the guts out of an Old deputy’s lamp and put a slow burning candle in it, and positioned an hamster wheel over it, containing the mandatory Hamster, not Richard Hammond unless a real hamster could not be located, and wearing nomex socks (H&S) the Hamster hot footed it around the wheel with a PTO rubber band drive from a sprocket on the H/wheel to a fan, which was positioned in line with the lamp, which was causing circulating warm air to waft around the immobile EV’s cockpit. Of course the question would be … is the carbon footprint generated to get the sulpur to create the match unacceptable?

                    • keith gerrard

                      But if you had an EV parked at home it would be plugged into the mains charger and part of the current would be feeding a heater, so why the hampster?!!!!
                      IMO the alternate energy issue and the carbon footprint are of little if any importance in the way EVs are operated.
                      If EVs replaced ic engined vehicles the savings on CO2 output and pollution would be at least 50 percent of what they are today, simply from the savings from not using the ancient and obsolete ic system. This is before you even take a first look at reducing CO2 at energy source or using centralised and far more efficient alternate energy generation.
                      I get totaly fed up with the lies that come from both government and the fossil fuel lobby, the issue is a political and economic one, this is where the hold up is.

                    • Chris Elliott

                      Of course, its economic but its not polotics is self serving corruption, otherwise why would governments all the poisoning of our children with

                    • Chris Elliott

                      … aspartame. On the OIl front the BAE bribes scandal was made to go away by the Saudi’s or they threatened to take all theor money out of the City of London belived to be 500 billion. No EU bail out for us then? Equally I would imagine they demanded the £286 million BEA fine wasn’t to be used to develop EV’s either. (Ooops!) I only mentioned the Hamster idea, for non home parking use, because I heard there are quite alot of unemployed Hamsters these days just hanging around on street corners been led astray by Trolls. 🙁 Eeeeh our society lad, what would ya do? Pass the Hovis Mother!

                    • The Ville

                      keith gerrard:
                      “Converting electricity to heat is already a very efficient process it is true.
                      Much more efficient in fact than producing heat from the internal combustion cycle as a bi-product.”

                      Well done keith, you get it!
                      So why were you talking about making it more efficient?

                      How much of the heat actually warms the humans in the car?
                      A lot of the air molecules will be excited (vibrating, rotating and generally moving around), but won’t pass that energy on to the drivers body. So you still have some losses, because some of the heated air hasn’t done anything useful.

                      keith gerrard:
                      “To overcome the rare problem like needing heat in traffic jams on motor ways, and to give a reserve re-charge for distance driving and emergencies, it is also possible to instal induction heating systems in some road sections. ”

                      You need to clarify what you mean. Induction is used as a method for transferring energy from one cable to another in isolation, across an air gap or through a material.
                      Most effort is in developing induction recharging systems or supplying power via buried cables in the road.

                      keith gerrard:
                      “Of course if EVs replaced ic vehicles, there would no longer be the need to transport and store liquid fuel or pump it around. This would easily halve energy use for vehicles, compared to the ancient system in use today.”

                      We are talking energy here. There will always be a need to have systems to store and transmit the energy. EVs require storage (batteries, ultra capacitors etc.) and the distribution is via cables. It isn’t much different to petrol or diesel.
                      The main issues are carbon emissions and efficiency.

    • Chris Elliott

      If you installed a rocket stove, ran it on dried out and compacted cowpats … had an heat exchanger around the chimney and creating steam to drive a steam engine … to drive an AC electric motor charging the batteries … wouldn’t that kill two birds with one stone or would there be patent conflict with Stevenson’s Rocket?

      Q. Would it be possible to fit a tow bar for the fuel trailer? 🙂

        • keith gerrard

          I think you would be better off burning trolls rather than cow pats, higher energy content.
          Mind you it would all be external combustion, creating a lot of hot air (wasted heat), so the efficiency would stay very low.

            • Chris Elliott

              Could the hot air be directed at a small windmill on top of the troll cage trailer to recycle it?

                • keith gerrard

                  Far better to use nano tunneling in a dedicated electronics package creating the core of a HERS.

    • Chris Elliott

      With respect Nano tunnelling is too fragile for a mobile application like this, its present inherent weakness wouldn’t withstand Brirish roads let alone a constant bombardment of every kind of wave and magnetic bombardment associated with urban travel.

    • Chris Elliott

      Here … who nicked the top of my ‘t’. That was British Roads.

    • Jeffrey Lam

      I believe any patents associated with Stevenson’s Rocket should have run out by now… 🙂

    • Chris Elliott

      True Jeffery! 🙂 However, Keith’s input made me think piezo electric generators generate heat and if wind was used in motion to drive them they would also generating juice for recharging or taking over ‘drive’ duties. Coupled to the recent discoveries in nature regarding the properties necessary to draw circulating air there should be abundant quantities for fingers, toes and windscreen. Thats without tapping into KERS.

        • keith gerrard

          KERS systems are only of use for stop start motoring
          (multi drop delivery vehicles) and motor sport applications.
          On the urban cycle, recovering electricity from the braking system gives about the same over all energy savings as conventional braking and on motorways more energy can be saved by coasting rather than KERS braking.
          Pure electric with high efficiency batteries is the best way forward. As I have said before, electricity is not an energy source, it is just the best way to store and move energy around, ask the electricity board if you disagree.
          On an EV there is no need for any form of energy production, in fact it simply adds extra weigh and reduces the vehicles efficiency. Hybrids are at present a stop gap and a way for the manufacturers of obsolete ic vehicles to justify their factories and prices. Keep baleing them out and this will not change.

            • Chris Elliott

              Keith, Thanks for sharing your wide knowledge base with us from Trolls to Nano tunnelling and HERS/KERS. I am fully aware of the definition of KERS having worked in the auto industry and motorsport but that will be helpful for others no doubt. I would respectfully disagree with the delivery truck dismissal as several high end German manufacturers have already built Kinetic energy harvesting systems into the range of vehicles for the future including the hybrids and full EV’s. In early America you could get hanged for stealing a horse not because they were particularly expensive but because they were vital to survival. Cost will come into it but shouldn’t really, what cost survival. At the point of pre-mature death many rich men would offer all they have, but not right now. Energy capture in all its form is vital to our survival and none should be ignored because some specialists favour the virtues of their own field. Point been, too many of the good and great have put all their eggs in the solar basket. An icelandic volcano blocked air travel recently, the next one could block out the sun for a bit. Or was it all a dream, the icelandic volcano ash cloud? Many have dismissed it as such. We are as vulnerable to sudden death as a fluffy dew eyed seal pup as a bloodied club falls out of its sky. By the way, I believe the powers that be have deemed free wheeling as been illegal at present. Not that some people, not a million miles away from here haven’t been doing it for years. Of course, at Xmas 39 years ago when petrol went up to 50p a gallon I just grumbled like everyone else, I didn’t panic and I drove like I stole it, I definately didn’t coast. Equally sell the idea of coasting to a 2010 teenage driver, sipping from his £1.25p can of Red Bull as he/she zips along and their insurance costing the same per year as my first house cost! Hmmm, I wonder if we could fit a conrod to their elbow and a flywheel on an alternator so that when they drunk we captured the energy lost? 🙂

                • keith gerrard

                  Coasting is a relative term.
                  Foot off deceleration is a form of coasting. KERS systems will recover kinetic energy only if that kinetic energy exceeds the amount needed to achieve the distance required.
                  This is only the case when excess energy is converted into kinetic energy, when racing or when the number of acceleration and deceleration cycles in the journey exceed the efficiency of a non kinetic energy recovery trip without stops over the same distance.
                  Fitting KERS just to suit a boy racer is hardly forward thinking.
                  For your interest, I have an official paper before the FIA AEC advising on EV official racing and I also have a patent on an ESERU Electric Energy Recovery Unit which is part of a new generation KERS system for F1 and Hybrid application.
                  So please let us have your expert view on KERS systems.

                    • keith gerrard

                      Sorry I forgot to state that my comments on KERS were confined to full electric application.
                      Of course there is a use for KERS on Hybrids but this only captures energy otherwise wasted by the inefficient ic engine used with the electric system.
                      However there is nothing wrong in fitting KERS to full electric in replacement of the wheel brakes, so that it can recover energy on the rare occasions when there is a positive capture.

    • Chris Elliott

      Keith … quick, quick !! would you please email Porsche, Audi and BMW to tell them that YOU think they have wasted millions on their energy capture systems and they must stop immediately.

      You are way too serious Keith! Jibes about Trolls and throwing the gauntlet down on levels of expertise so you can expound your own theory’s is a little distasteful. My Uncle sits on the FIA council I’ll mention your prickly disposition to him. I’m sure they would look forward to working with you my friend.

      As for my field of expertise, my patents go way beyond playing with racing cars. None of which I am going to spell out for you. And you’d have to prove YOU had a sense of humour first mate! Technology is going to rush ahead now and much of your present expertise is going to be redundant very quickly as new break through technology emerges using … well I was going to spell it out but it would only give you something else to tear apart, sorry debate … lets just say progressive thinking is the opposite to all you know.

      Clearly you don’t like been harmlessly tease … or you had a bad experience with an Hamster when you were young, so I’ll stop, not because I’m intimidated but I don’t want to spoil your fun and you’ll only go all British on me if I carry on.

      I think from examples already shown that Dale, Paul and Simon all have a keen sense of fun and know all work and no play can make one terribly dull.

      Does anyone want a free pre-loved Hamster I spectulatively bought a load thinking I’d found a niche in the automotive market … sadly not. 🙂

    • keith gerrard

      I do not consider myself to serious, in fact I have a good sense of humour. To be honest, I no longer care less on how the electric and alternate fuel vehicle market developes.
      There are far to many people who are involved just to milk the money from grants for me to take a lot of it seriously.
      If you concluded that I was being rude to you I apologise, it was not intended.
      If you can market a ‘hampster’ re-generation system, good luck to you. I see little future for my own ideas, they conflict far to much with vested interest and being retired, I no longer bother with the battles that this involves.
      I would however take more interest in your comments Chris, if you did at least input some relevent information.

        • Chris Elliott

          Keith … It was all about been light hearted as a little relief after the heavy stuff thats really going on and I can’t at the moment patent rules which as you know prevent open domain exchanges prior to been approved. And having spent so much money I can’t shoot myself in the foot now. I’m there with ya on the vested interest. Millibands watch at DECC been in bed with Gemserv and the abortion they created in the MCS was nothing short of screaming third world corruption or criminal stupidity. Industy vampires sucking the life blood out of the future. I have my MP on that at the moment which is timely as Cameron has just stuck his conk in the DECC v Treasury feud. The Treasury not been fooled by the Yes Minister Bullshitter still in place and still up to some very dodgy dealing. But don’t give up hope there is change in the air and you’ll start to see the effect of it on the news as the youth of this country say this is BS and we are taking control of our future because we can make a better job of it than you old self serving farts. The ‘Crude Awakening’ Coryton Protest was just the beginning. They were New Age Hippies they were Indigo’s and they herald an New Age. If we are to help them, those of us who are Eco-Green or the new Eco-Blue we have to make sure the ordinary Policeman doesn’t brutalise them and remembers instead they are our neighbours and they are citizens of this country too and its their future and children we are fightiung for … and if they act like Nazi’s following the ACPO’s orders there will be a reckoning for them too. You are an articulate individual nd you can still contribute by bugging the Hell out of your MP.
          Sending them links about things that are wrong and going to the surgeries. And … demanding a Recall Law and the doing away with party whips and party policy. Let each speak with their conscience and for the people they represent not the old boys old order who still view us as the great unwashed. That you can have an effect on Keith, never too small to make a difference, if you think you are try sleeping in a room with a female mosquito! Now there is a nasty deadly little bitch! Still killing a lot of people. Technically the most dangerous creature on Earth! If somewhat less terrifying than a confused Great White Shark in its back yard.

          Only looked in because I think Dale is an shining example of an Indigo Scout pathing the way and a top bloke. But I’m out of here now. So good luck … and keep busy, I’ve known loads who retired and just died because they were bored with nothing to do and no purpose. Changing times Keith Changing times!

    • Kevin Sharpe

      Dale, I completely agree that the RAC BLFCC was handicapped by the attempt to measure ‘efficiency’. The long traffic queues generated by cars traveling at 20 mph reinforced the stereotype of the ‘eco’ car, and was not something I participated in (I spent my time traveling at highway speeds, overtaking when appropriate).

      During the weekend I travelled 527 miles in my Tesla Roadster, the majority driven on renewable energy. I think next years event needs to reflect the fact that EV’s are now mainstream cars, not something weird that we ogle at from afar…

    • keith gerrard

      Tesla, 527 miles in two days and most on renewable energy.
      Have you any details Kevin?

    • Kevin Sharpe

      (1) Friday 5th November

      Bath to Southampton, prepare car and charge (L2)

      Southampton to Petersfield to Portsmouth, collect navigator and charge (L2)

      Portsmouth to Brighton, register for BLFCC and charge (L1)

      (2) Saturday 6th November

      Brighton to Crawley to London (Regents St)

      London (Regents St) to London (Kensington), charge (L1)

      (3) Sunday 7th November

      London (Kensington) to Portsmouth, drop off navigator, charge (L2)

      Portsmouth to Southampton, charge (L2)

      Southampton to Bath

      The Level 2 (L2) chargers are part of the “Charge Points Everywhere” test network setup by the Zero Carbon World charity and are using electricity from Good Energy.

      The Level 1 (L1) chargers were supplied by the hotels. As Dale reported, the Brighton hotel supplied little or no power. The London Hotel (base2stay) supplied an overnight charge. It’s a ‘green’ hotel but I don’t know whether that was renewable electricity.

      I did not record the journey in great detail because my regular commute is 200+ miles and I’m well used to using my Tesla for those sorts of journeys. All I can say is that I traveled at highway speeds (we were late on Friday night and so I had to ‘push on’ a bit), and I don’t think much about the charging because it only takes me a couple of minutes to plug in the cable…

      I haven’t made a great deal of the renewable’s story because i did plug into L1 charge locations of unknown electricity source. Next year I intend to use 100% renewable’s for the entire trip and have the results verified by the supplier.

      I think you have to be on facebook to see the photo’s in the second link…

      Let me know if you need more info…

        • keith gerrard

          That says it all for me Kevin, thanks.
          Electric cars are proven to be practicable.
          It is true that re-charge sites are not yet easily available but I canot see anyway that government can avoid the need to extend the national grid and establish many more.

          The only problem is the price of the Tesla and EVs generaly.
          Useable electric cars have been available since before 1899 so it is about time.

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Hi I’ve got an ecobonds question (or several!):
      How and why did you come up with an interest rate of 7/7.5%?

      Looking at the accounts (and doing a couple of simple calculations) it doesn’t look like ecotricity makes 7 pence for every pound of capital expenditure per year. It looks less than that.

      I’m sure you’ve done your numbers, but do you not think you are paying too much? I guess you need to pay more than for the bond of a “rated” company such as EDF (5.5% or something wasn’t it)

      What is the rationale? Is it to make a small loss in the short term in order to get the energy sources built (and then pay off the redeemed bonds with existing income)? Or are my sums wrong?

      Secondly, Dale made a point some time ago, that big wind was the most cost-effective way to green the energy supply, if you include taxpayers’ money as well as customers’ and the company’s. So could you explain the solar/FiT/micro-generation direction a bit more? If big wind is (apparently) not earning 7%, then I’m unsure how solar will earn that much.

      Best regards

        • paul

          Hiya Jeffrey – I’ll answer this one as the others might go…

          Basically Dale said:

          “..until the issue closes, we’re restricted in the questions we can answer due to FSA regs and so on – offer closes this Friday, we can get into it after that.


          Hope that helps for now? Full discussion on this to come from the sounds of it 🙂

            • Jeffrey Lam

              ok I look forward to the discussion. I had seen a similar answer somewhere else (referring to FSA regs) so I guessed I would get the same answer.

    • Squeaky

      So, what’s the point? I’ve read the blog. It says you want to make electric cars more interesting and show the motor industry the way to go.
      I think the Tesla is quite interesting. What’s the difference between the Nemesis and the Tesla? There was a Tesla on the Brighton to London run, so how did they compare?
      Nissan’s Leaf is also interesting. It’s a serious step along the road to popularising the electric car as a genuine alternative and produced by a major motor manufacturer. Next step, make them affordable.

      According to your website, 6.6% of the electricity that comes out of the grid and into the Nemesis (since it charges from the grid) is green. Why not work on making that 6.7%? Wouldn’t a 0.1% increase in the nation’s renewable energy make a bigger impact than a new electric toy/car to raise the nation’s consumption?

      I will add that I would love to have a car like the Nemesis/Tesla but since I couldn’t possibly afford one I’m stuck with petrol. So I’m not against the electric sportscar, I just think it might be a distraction from making a real difference.

        • Chris Elliott

          Hey Squeaky … Got a question for you.

          How big was the first ever Computer?

          How big would you say the smallest was now, not including Blackberry’s etc. Would you say the iPad is it so far?

          And thats the Point Dude. It starts somewhere and it gathers momentum, I was going to say gets bigger but it gets smaller physically lol.

          I don’t know what Motor ya got Son, but right now there are designs been development to rip the heart out of your fossil dinosaur an drop an electric motor in it coupled to your tranny and it doesn’t need acres of rechargable batteries either in any gaps left by the old infrastructure. So scrapping your power plant and the Cat (£100 to £200 alone) for some wanda, would ya invest … or rent a field for a long earred quadruped?

          As for percentages of the long end of a botty burp, when you can’t get petrol anymore without a mortgage, (most peoples annual fuel bill would have bought a 3 bed semi with garage back in 1971 and 25 yr mortgage, that would be nice now, I wondered if I could afford it back then) … there will only be one choice unless you go organic and buy a donkey to tow ya motor! Either way the fossil lump is gonna get ripped out in time … or the donkey will object. lol.

            • Squeaky

              I agree. Petol will run out along with the other fossil fuels, the ones we use to make electricity. I think the source is more important than the use. If we can’t generate electricity when the fuel runs out the fastest, most efficient electric cars will be as useless as my petrol car.

              My question however was what is it that the Nemesis brings to the table? Is it faster than a Tesla? Are its bateries and motors more advanced than the Leaf’s? Will it interest more people in electric motoring than a Prius (yes, I know it’s a hybrid)? Is it the progress you describe?

                • Chris Elliott

                  Hey Squeaky, valid points. Dale or Paul will have to answer about the Nemesis but if you look at the Brighton Run and other Tesla reports you’ll probably find it is faster.

                  Speaking theoretically about the future, Ecotricity like many others have committed to Wind and Solar, both of which will be redundant if an Asteroid/meteor over a half a mile wide hits us or Yellowstone Caldera, presently experiencing a swarm of high intensity earthquakes for the third year in a row, explodes and blocks out the sun. (The sun creates wind and rain too) Worst scenario. An Asteroid strikes the Western United States AND triggers the Caldera. Run Dinosaur run!

                  Other technology is been developed to provide electricity for survival environments in such cases. The technology if fully funded which its not is 18mths-2 yrs away but the first sustainable cities are 6-10 yrs away. The Large Million Plus cities, with no private or commercial vehicles are 20 yrs away.

                  In the meantime, we have no choice at present other than to go with increased electricity generation while developing new technology which will all be generator based in someway. Electric cars as we know them now will be obsolete in the future and speed won’t be an issues as the total travel scenario will be controlled, Sat Nav will take on a whole new meaning as will proximity devices. If we have our own ‘motors’ in 30 years I’d be surprised. If they have wheels I’ll be surprised. We are breaking through with motionless electromagnetic generators, which will also be fitted in vehicles … and Gravitational Transformers generating Kinetic energy are within sight. However, a clear example of the obstacles that science and the industry face from imagination-less none technically, bureaucrats is illustrated by American Civil servants handling of a vehicle’s performance, something they have no business been involved in anyway. They made it Law that a vehicle has to show its mpg performance!?!?!? EV’s don’t use liquid fuel. After much consuming of peanuts and head scratching they came up with a formula to convert EV’s performance to mpg. Sigh! They will hopefully bust a blood vessel and be retired to a rest home when they come across the quietly humming platform with no wheels, sitting several feet, meters or storeys off the planet’s surface.

                  As for right now Squeaky, the greed of mankind has trapped us again, we allowed the Chinese initially under-cut and then to corner the Rare Earth Elements market and they have now placed restrictions on the exportation of REE including the Magnets used in EV’s. Reason? To protect their future. Of course you can have as many as you like if you build a factory in THEIR Silicon/REE Valley! Last year’s world trade in REE’s was 120,000 tonnes next year they have reduced it to 60,000 tonnes. The rest of the world clambers to re-open REE mines taking years to get back online. The Prius has 25lb of REE’s in it and the Japanese are scrambling right now to recycle the 300,000 tonnes of REE’s they have in Japan already.

                  Bottom line, future protection purchase will be impossible for sometime in EV’s as everything has Betamax potential for the foreseeable future, which hurts the development and sales.

    • keith gerrard

      Changing to EVs will reduce energy use by transport by 50 percent at least just by ridding ourselves of the ancient inefficient liquid transport fuel infra-structure.
      It will also halve CO2 and pollution connected to road transport.
      This is before you even look at sources for energy production whether green or not.
      All the rest is BS to benefit to fossil fuel supporters.
      Hybrids are just pandering to the motor inductry and their established production set ups for ancient 19th century ic engines. Adding ic to EVs simply adds weight.

    • keith gerrard

      Guess what. When the batteries reach the end of their lives, the REEs in them are STILL THERE.
      This is TOTALY a different ball game to burning fossil fuel which simply adds to the CO2 in the atmosphere and adds pollution.
      All you have to do is RE-CYCLE the REEs.
      The MPG equivalent is a complete joke and means absolutely nothing. It is an attempt to maintain the fossil fuel mind set in lemmings, so that governments can continue to hide the huge taxes they receive from liquid fuels. The price of these fuels and electricity has for a long long time had no relevence whatsoever to its actual value to the consumer.
      The answer is to arrest the bankers who are holding our countries to ransome and take back our worlds future.

    • Chris Elliott

      Keith, True and I think the Honda CEO said the most efficient engine was only 20% efficient. BUT help me out here with your alternative options on the following paragraph , accompanied most importantly please by the politically persuasive argument, over-coming trade agreements with Oil Suppliers who have economy killing amounts of money deposited in the City of London, (Ref: BEA Bribes scandal) the financing of development for the RE/EV industry and the time frame involved in a complete transition to EV.

      Right now can’t change to EV’s. Commercially they aren’t viable. Next year we might see EDF/Renault Maxity Electric Light Trucks on trial with 2 tonnes/120 mile range, with regenerative braking energy capture. Eight EV Maxity’s run to operational limits and a ‘Pony Express’ waystation system where another 8 EV’s take up the running doesn’t beat the efficiency of one HGV Artic running from Dover to Glasgow. Especially when you look at the carbon footprint of the production of 40 EV vehicles. Of course, if it was put on an electric train … it may in the future … and it might well have been now if mass killer Richard Beeching hadn’t been allowed to run amok in 1963.

      And of course the biggest polluters are Aircraft and Shipping. All BS aside about IC I am interested in your perceived view of a priority transition. And the carbon/RE footprint of the current grid electricity supply related to the subsequent reduction in efficiency gain?

    • Chris Elliott

      Hey Keith GUESS WHAT … the batteries are ending up in landfills or economy’s in foreign countries !!!! Thats just what I said to my MP two weeks ago … stop selling our waste to China and India or shipping it via great polluting boats to landfills in Africa.

      Who’s going to arrest the Bankers, the establishment? I think not. A Peoples Committee of Commonsense Lay People interested only in removing crap from our country and the worlds future, I would deeply wish that to be the case but 95% of our citizens over 25 where most of the true power lies, are to busy filling their own boots.

      Times are changing and the balance of power WILL move but like the Coryton Oil Refinery protest in October, made up of mainly under 25’s, alternatives have to be realistically offered to gain support.

    • keith gerrard

      It is primarily a political issue of mega significance.
      Electric trains are far better for transporting goods than HGVs.
      The problem is the International Banking system that we labour under.
      It runs our country and it has to be the first thing to be rid of.
      The current EV revolution motivated by a fear of the future damage to our environment from excess CO2, has given us an opertunity to force the political change needed.
      We should be leading the world in this technical change, instead of being led by the nose by the corrupt.

    • Chris Elliott

      Well said Keith. I totally agree. I agree with your opinion on the International Banking scenario. How do we extricate ourselves?

      It took us 50 yrs to pay of the loan the Americans ‘Our special friends’ made to us when they ‘helped’ us out in World War II.

      The German people are sick of and would love to kill the Euro (hell they didn’t want East Germans back when they had to support them) but it would cost them too much to set up their own currency again, same with the Austrians.

      We don’t seem to make too many good moves but we did when we kept our own currency. However, Osbourne has just signed away £Billions to support the rumblings from three other Euro Countries ahead of us planning to do a Greece/Ireland Dance.

      Okay Ireland Benefits us because we have so much money wrapped up in Irish banks we wouldn’t have caught a cold we would have had our financial nuts cut off!

    • Greg Dance

      Hmmm yes the Nemesis is a typical car of the genre but as the future of transporting billions of humans around simply cannot include indulgent and impractical ego toys like Nemesis, why build it?
      Instead why not develop an electric delivery van, bus, mini bus, taxi or people carrier that has a wider range of practical uses and might be adoptable?

        • keit gerrard

          Nemesis proves that it is possible to build a ‘so called’ supercar that is fully electric and still achieve equal high performance.
          Competition has always been the main driving force for developing technology in road vehicles and Nemesis among others shows that there is no longer any technical doubts that EVs can replace obsolete internal combustion vehicles including those with the highest performance.
          It is true that supercars electric or ic will never be the main type in the future but then petrol supercars never have been and IMO have always sadly shown up the idiotic male penis envy traits in humans, when in actual fact the majority who drive them are rich whimps anyway and the damn things never ever get used anywhere near their potential performance limits, making them a complete joke and the motor mouths that generaly drive them.
          I love performance and racing vehicles but only for a sensible purpose and IMO Nemesis fits this requirement perfectly.
          Proper official electric motor sport is the main way forward for EVs. The potential for this is now fully proven.

    • John Graham

      Reality check here please. The magnets in a Prius use 25kg of Neodymium, one of the most polluting and dangerous metals that we use. Only mined in Mongolia the effect on the local chinese and mongol people is horrendous. Never mind the chinese rationing to maintain high prices. This metal is also used in most wind farms t the level of up to 5.5tons per turbine. There are alternatives but the big money has jumped on the band wagon and it is the bankers and international financiers that are being saved, not the planet. Let us see investment in developing industries not supporting an inefficient system that doesn’t actually need subsidies and has been around since the 1920s.

        • Chris Elliott

          Its 25 lb 25 kg so what ?? and not all neodymium and whats the Reality Check then? The effects on the people you seem to have formed a protest group for without knowing I suspect are suffering at the hands of people who have killed 25 million of their own people (that we know of) since WWII So there is the REALITY CHECK if you please! And …. what have you up YOUR sleeve that out performs Rare Earth? And … for your greatly deficient information the Chinese have with a vengence embraced Capitalism without the hindrance of liberal democracy … and their game plan has nothing to do with us been eternally led by a bunch of American sycophants and reamered at every opportunity for getting on for 100 yrs now. Saving Bankers ??? Yeah right!!! God save us from those who would protest but offer no alternative!

    • keit gerrard

      Reality check indeed.
      Neodymium is a so called rare earth element.
      They are not actualy ‘rare’ being as abundant as tin in theearths crust.
      The Chinese do use bad methods to mine many of them. This does not have to be the case and China is also not the only source on the planet.
      The above links shows the progress being made with re-cycling of rare earth elements, which are already in most of your household common products and have been for years.

      John Graham conveniently misses the fact that these elements remain in all these electrical products including EVs when their life cycle is achieved. This is TOTALY different to filthy oil burning vehicles that burn and convert oil fuels into extra atmospheric CO2 and pollution.

      Bankers are indeed the problem John they have assisted in paying government grants of over 70 billion dollars to the oil and coal industries just in the US between 02 and 08.
      For the same period alternates received 12 billion.
      You realy should check your facts John

      One main problem is the NIBY b—t–rds who prevent the building of more wind turbines, they should have their electricity bills doubled.

        • John Graham

          I would love to see efficient electric vehicles, preferably powered from Hydro, but we have some way to go. Fact is that turn the heater on and you lose 45% of your range. Don’t forget that it was not that many years since all our milk was delivered to our doors by electric vehicles! Now we all burn masses of fossil fuel technology to travel many miles to the nearest Tesco to buy milk that has more miles on it than a london taxi. Why is it that Wind supporters have to be so abusive to anyone who seems to query their religious verve? There is room for wind as well as many other renewable technologies. Just allow others their point of view. we are supposed to support free speech, after all. As to Neodymium, I am quite aware that it is used in everything from radios to shavers but I think few were aware of the environmental cost. Obviously we should simply stick our heads in the sand as it is expedient for us to ignore it. Or we could be grown up and find a better more environmentally acceptable way of producing it. Unfortunately wind is a very ineffiecient way of producing electricity. The Turbines on the hills opposite haven’t been working for nearly three weeks now. At the coldest time of the year!

            • keit gerrard

              Electric vehicles are powered by? You guessed it, electricity.
              This is not an energy form just a way to transfer one energy to another.
              The energy used to create the electricity is NOT the point when talking of the benefits of EVs.
              Just changing to EVs does away with the wasteful and filthy liquid fuel infra structure. This alone will reduce transport CO2 and pollution by 50 percent.

            • keit gerrard

              Electric vehicles are powered by? You guessed it, electricity.
              This is not an energy form just a way to transfer one energy to another.
              The energy used to create the electricity is NOT the point when talking of the benefits of EVs.
              Just changing to EVs does away with the wasteful and filthy liquid fuel infra structure. This alone will reduce transport CO2 and pollution by 50 percent.

            • Kevin Sharpe

              John. I drive an EV with a 200+mile range. I’ve been driving through the recent poor weather in the UK with temperatures of -6 deg C. I have not noticed any depreciation in range despite having all of the lights, heating (cabin and seat), and other ancillaries switched on.

              My EV uses up to 5 Amps for all the ancillaries, and up to 600 Amps for the motor… the heating load is so small that it’s in the ‘noise’.

              Obviously, all EV’s are different and it’s important to understand the capabilities of the vehicle when you purchase one. However, over time these issues will become irrelevant just as they did in the early days of the ICE car.

                • John Graham

                  Interesting. Unfortunately we live right up in the Highlands and it is a 350 mile round trip to Edinburgh and 600+ to London so until there is a quick charge facility on the A9 or M6 we will have to just be green with envy. Bit daft really, surrounded by Hydro and Wind and it all goes south. Point well made by Chris. As long as the footie is on the TV, who cares a damn anyway. Funnily enough those that live in the Highlands are very connected to their environment and care a great deal for the rest of mankind. Just see how many from this area are involved in helping others around the world. Perhaps we have the space and time to think whereas urban dwellers are simply keeping their heads above water. However we don’t appreciate our environment being decimated by massive wind farms. We prefer our views wild and natural. And we love our country.

                    • Kevin Sharpe

                      John, I know that one of the Tesla owners who lives in Edinburgh is working on a quick charge network that will allow people to drive the whole length of the UK. However, current charging technology will require a stop of two or three hours every 250+ miles. However, this will quickly change as battery technology improves or we switch to super capacitors.

            • Chris Elliott

              John … when you pull out words like reality check you are going to provoke a response. HAWT’s are inefficent, the production carbon footprint is horrendous and they are all white! I have 90 odd examples to gaze upon and surprisingly most of them are working today, unlike the Whitstable ones which only have a third of the 30 operational at any one time IF the conditions are operational! I don’t have any RE religion, I love petrol engines and racing oil and the noise they make but I am a realist and I work in RE with several technolgies including hydro and wind but I don’t like electricity, get bitten by something with mA biggggggger than your shoe size and you will get your membership cancelled immediately. But I have to work with it for Humanitarian reasons, those been when the oil runs out we won’t be able to transport food fast enough without power of some kind. Presently I prefer it over Hydrogen which I am sure will be fine until the first motorway pile up or should that be BBQ involving an Hydrogen artic and hydrogen cars then the CCTV footage of the Hindenberg like Mushroom cloud might quell future sales as it did for airship travel. I was down the pub the other night and in another fit of humanity I shout to the assembled throng, Hey lets all go to China and killing the murderous Government! As one, everyone straightened their shoulders and shout back Yeah! Then there was a reality check and everyone said, No with a sort of sigh sinking back onto the bar! Bottomline John the majority of people don’t care yet about the environmental cost or murderous Chinese or African governments (or Corrupt FIFA officials) and when they do it will be too late. As it is for the next two World Cups.

            • newena martin

              Dear John Graham
              Wind turbines can be beautiful…Much better than pylons! In Australia you should see the undulating ores on the cliff top nature reserve where you can walk under them! They look across to the Antarctic from Albany in West Australia and as you go on the bus from Albany to Denmark you can see them across the King George Sound looking gorgeous ! They are not all on the same level/contour line so they have a free-form random look that flows with the horizon cliff line.
              Albany has about 93 percent of its electricity from these and is having another one to nearly get 100 percent …..Wild and beautiful and hopeful and forward looking and intelligent evolving! Exciting!

              If you want to keep wrechnology completely hidden then don’t go to london or Glasgow ever again !and do a Transition Towns local food focus and independence… but I think that means lots of Eden Domes in Every County to grow the food you want all year round and I think they look exciting and beautiful too and I would be very proud to look at one from my valley cottage.and know new local jobs were there too!

              U have to back to ponies and traps otherwise, if there’s no new exciting clean use of invention… Eden Domes are one good long term use of plastic based stuff I think..But it doesn’t have to look like an inner sea – marsh or lake of plastic like the Canaries or Spain do it – necessarily – Food and Art and landscape design and energy can come together .


                • Chris Elliott

                  Newena, I’ve seen those from the sea, they should still be painted from top to bottom in patterns to break them up. I have relatives in Perth and we went down there Whale watching. The Captain of the boat said you had to be quite careful that year walking among them as they had problems with Tiger Snakes. Thing that bugs me about the way they are doing things there is they have the rest of the worlds mistakes to look at and they still get it wrong. Okay it makes sense to have wind RE on windy cliff top but Oz has so much sun, why. And theer are only 2 million people in the whole of WA a quarter of the population of London. But worst scenario, No sun and No wind why with so much unoccupied coast line haven’t gone with the sea. Funniest thing was they built this brilliant to use Rail system north out of Perth BUT the only built two tracks, it wasn’t electric of course, and they built a two lane motorway on each side of it, generally steep banks at the side of those and then built houses up to the edge of the banks, no option to expand at all. In WA they have 10 times the land mass we have in the UK and they can’t engage their brains. But you are on the right track with the Eden Domes only they will be so much more than that and they won’t be plastic. 🙂

                    • newena martin

                      Chris, thanks for that info – however I loved the Albany windmills showing proudly what they were and wouldn’t want to see them camaflaged – cant spell it – sorry!. I saw many wind mills in the Canaries too and the ones with dark bases and funny colours were ugly and the pure white ones were better – but it also depends on their shape – they can – to me – be very beautiful works of art – like real life practical ‘sculpture’ or architecture Our education has boxed things up separately for So long and lost the connections – (but there isn’t actually any COMPLETE separation at all between anything), so that’s why its hard to engage your brain multilaterally or ‘weft and warp in 3 D as the Nam Myoho Renge Kyo says (in part) – we can only go as fast as we can with the evolution cant we? But evolution is being manipulated by ‘foods’ as well as education structures and content…

                      I dont understand your objection to tiger snakes in the nature reserve? – Do they breed faster under windmills ‘cos they like the particular vibrational energy of them? – or what ? If they are part of the nature you go to see in the reserve – what’s the problem? I suspect there will be more objections from humans that the windmill noise is spoiling the peace of the reserve – and constant roar of the ocean of course!

                      But Oz is a snake and spider minefield even in the little reserve above Perth for example Kalamunda in Spring watch out! And I had a Whiteback spider rearing at me out of a rose I went to smell over a suburban garden fence/hedge and Redbacks in the house under my makeshift bed on the pallet wood and also under some junked pallets and stuff I found on the grass verges to aim to make a child a cubby house with!. But Oz has stacks and stacks of endless nature reserves…land – as you comment! ..and sea water yes – but what country IS doing much with wave power really anywhere?- so I think the opening brains just have to ignore the slower brains – for the slower brain’s own survival’s sakes of course! …

                      Eden Domes are Architecture and Art and Science and ecology, so now I am intrigued by your vision of planet earth when you say they will be MUCH bigger – are you seeing Isaac Asimov – ‘Foundation and Earth’ – a planet completely covered many layers deep? – where human robots ‘live’ in work and sleep and eat cells and have to come up to the roof ‘terraces’ for therapy when claustrophobic? – It really is too far to truck food back from Mars though – it’s not a viable satelite veg and chicken house! …Well not till you get the Julian May’s speed of space warp travel in harness..So How Big will the ”Eden Dome’ veg and fruit domes be? and made of what then please? if not (recycled?) plastics ?

                      I first of all thought that going as self sufficient to the area to avoid oiling stuff round the world would be eco soundest and having even tobacco and pineapples and bananas etc grown in your temperate county dome. But like you say the Aussies cant engage their brains! – It is hard for most people to dump the educational and habitual programming I think !… So as I am pondering these things and prizing open my brain a little – I Now think that if the ships were all electric with solar panels or wind, or even water ? that it wouldn’t matter so much to import/export food…

                      I do actually think that people shouldn’t have to worry about making money – ‘the twisted one’ as the ancient Egyptians called it ! to just EAT. (Reading ‘Extra Virgen’ atm which is a wonderfully funny journey of discovery of Ligurian food self sufficiency in ortas, orchards,vineyards, olive terraces, courtyards, springs and no plumbing – to speak of!) And peoples should be left to first and foremost grow locally all their own food that they need and like Cuba’s city gardens and on all rooves etc too, and only sell the surplus further field and then worry about what the profit from that can add to their lives’ luxuries – maybe its more processing factories to export for more money – another vicious circle and we don’t want to go encouraging that…I actually question many of the Western ‘guilty ex colonial’ ‘Aid’ programmes that only give Western education and toxic drugs to earth connected indigenous peoples. Goats and Wells and eye ops yes, but books and computers – hmmm! Still have the Chanel Four very old videos showing the Bacu teaching their children everything in the forest.

                      And I think if you want to eat rice – go live where it grows! I dont want that plastering the counties under these non-plastic domes!

                      Lots of food is synthesised chemical components and you just need roughage in the colon – for a limited soulless survival period anyway! – so where are our souls and cell’s intelligence going with food?- (every cell has its own little brain !) – if not for pleasure and speciality local tastes, like the slow food movement. But the cells of many of us are already getting reprogrammed and many people are not really interested in ‘food’ anyway – its just a boring necessity – their desires and pleasures are somewhere else – Non carbon based genes no doubt, ongoingly manipulated by non-food and drugs.

                      BTW a friend said she had seen a ‘car’ design using compressed air that’s going to may be developed in India and apparently they’ve been trying to develop this for 10 years or so…. Can any one precis that for me in Jo Bloggs small brain language please?

                    • Chris Elliott

                      On Two occasions I found myself two feet away from a stubby lizard which has a broad head like a Viper an Blue Forked tongue. That was within striking distance of a metre long snake. Problem was in the national Park they were treading on the sleeping snakes looking up at the windmills. Very Familiar with all the nasties you mentioned, met too many. In Africa my Dad chopped the heads of two Black Mamba trying to get under the kitchen door and go in a straight line through the house, that is one aggressive snake. At least Tigers and Western Browns would run away if they had chance. But both are used to and often found in urban areas with noise, like foxes, they adapt. Must agree to differ on the colour of turbines. Can’t let on about the Domes save to say that God forbid they have ever to be used as designed because whatever food was available you would eat happily. As for claustrophobic I doubt it. The multi layer interior of such Design Science is like the British Museum which feels like a Venitian Square to me open to the sky. It will never replace John’s Highland Glory but it will be nice to go to the park every day and know the weather will be perfect. Lunch organically provided by the cascading provisions of a Blue Economy.

                      On another subject just read up on Stanley Meyer and his water powered car. Sobering story.

                      Colourful turbine links. Like a Coca Cola Heal the world song. ‘I’d like to be …’ lol.



                      Or ‘I see a red door and I want it painted … PURPLE ! lol

                    • newena martin

                      Oh thank you Chris for all the links –
                      I shall run out of my monthly net budget allowance! – but this month its priority is a couch surfing jigsaw in Malta and Gozo to explore Hypogeum and Gigantia and get Vit D and Iodine input…but my friend deffo said compressed air not water, I will get link from her – I said she should come and read all these fascinating blogs here anyway and promised to send her a link but she half lives in a Yurt in a wood in Little Wenlock and wants to be as green as poss with her transport…but I was in the middle of a one hour only busk and she stopped to have a catch up and was wasting my re- chargeable – ( Ecotricity recharged of course!) batteries in my Roland Cube and interrupting the flow of Pagan Carols and songs from Oliver and such like, so I cut her short a bit!… I have written a song about Dale and Macdonalds and Nemesis etc but its doesn’t do for busking – has to be an open mic nite for that! or eco concert..

                      I loved the anecdote about the black mambas – I hope they roast good in an earth slow cook fire maybe!… I recorded the Story of Riki Tiki Tavi a long time ago – Its so great a story!
                      My ‘Yoga for Health Foundation’ Yoga teacher up in Kalamamunda (Perth) had big Goanna type thing sleeping curled up under various trees in her garden but its harmless ..Its the giant cucarachas in all the cereal packets – even kept at the top of cupboards – because they are backless in the downmarket house I stayed, and the snails all over the toilet door and walls and porcelain that creep in from the sour grass back patch and have traversed the cess pit with a cracked lid and the mosquito door without any problem – that used to depress me about living in Oz …I couldn’t live in Oz full time although I have family there – its another planet – the leaves and fruits and birdsongs are all wrong!I I feel the Alien there! I would have preferred to be a guest of the indigenous Aboriginals with Neanderthal cerebellum knowledge of how to do stuff – and fascinating ‘connections’ ! with Anubis and also Jean Auel’s background research, in ‘Dingo makes us Human’ by Deborah Bird Rose which links were accidentally exposed in that anthropological study…

                      And I was much happier in Africa in a grass hut on the banks of he Luangua River In Tena Tena, Zambia with no green plastic inner sleeve to my staff grass hut I’m pleased to say… but we did have an electric fence!

                      You’ve really got me intrigued with Blue Economy and cascading organic food and the indoor parks with perfect weather remind me very much of Julian May’s planetary worlds.

                      But maybe you’re having me on here! – I shall explore the links when I’ve finished the jigsaw!

                      Thanks again, back to the jigsaw! newena

                    • Chris Elliott

                      We pour energy down the drain, its virtually criminal. I wouldn’t have you on, look up the World Business Council for Sustainable Development Plan until 2050 and the milestone at 2030, Okay its capitalist based but they are been dargghed screaming in the right direction. Also look up Gunter Pauli for Blue Eco concept. I just wrote to David Willetts to ask him to build one of his £100million Academy’s of Science on the old Hover port in Pegwell Bay, and make it a Cascading Blue Eco Dome complex. Hey guess what? No reply. If these A**’s build another public building that isn’t total energy capture we should have a revoltion. Could any of your instruments be adapted to fire poison darts too. Parents were at Kitwe and Ndola in Zambia, maybe we should get a bush doc to come and put his invisible signs around the Houses of Parliament.

        • paul

          AFAIK Enercon turbines don’t use Neodymium:

          At least I can’t find mention of it anywhere

            • Chris Elliott

              Paul, Enerco use an N52 80 degree temp Neo’s as Poles shoes sourced in India but they go out of their way to keep the fact quiet probably for the reasons John has made. Having led the way with direct drive and reducing component numbers and size it was a no brainer they would have to use RE’s as much of the weight reduction comes from the use of permanent magnets in the generators’ rotor. A 15-millimeter-thick segment of RE magnets can generate the same magnetic field as a 10- to 15-centimeter section of copper coils in the previous electro-magnetic set up.

            • keith gerrard

              Opposition to wind turbines is a GREED thing.
              If those objecting to them were making money from the turbines there would be no objections in most cases.
              The NIMBYs object because of the effect the turbines might have on their property values.
              Simple answer is to accept the objections as long as those objecting pay twice as much on electricity bills, job done.

    • Chris Elliott

      Keith you are correct as usual, Rare doesn’t mean rare in fact they are extremely abundant in the earth’s crust, they are just expensive to process viably. Its the greed of Industry and shareholders demanding greater dividends that has trapped itself.

      As for HAWT if they weren’t so Goddam SCREAMIN WHITE they might be a bit more acceptable. Paint is paint and it comes in colours. Maybe the Army personnel or Aircraft Carrier Sailors or Harrier pilots lost in the cutbacks could be laid on to paint them the way they know so well. With 90 million Cats in the UK devastating the Bird population its not like we care about fatal mistake identities, is it?

      HAWT is inefficient and outdated already and large enough VAWT’s aren’t ready yet, as isn’t another alternative. People generally want the toffee and the apple and don’t like change, so they will bitch about anything and everything that arrives anyway.

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Are rare earths/Neodymium used in all electric motors and generators? If so, does that mean that the turbines in thermal powerstations (coal, oil, gas, nuclear, geothermal) also use it? And hydro come to think of it… And tidal.

      That leaves solar.

      Is that right? Can someone correct me if I’m wrong?

    • John Graham

      Not that I know of, although some one will correct me. Neodymium is used where weight/efficiency are paramount. Certainly the older Hydro used copper but the very high prices that now commands may have some effect. Glen Doe is the latest Hydro but that has not been working for the last year since a tunnel collapse. Don’t ask how many millions to put right, it doesn’t bear thinking about. Most other Hydros are last generation although there has been a program of re-furbishment over the last decade. I am sure that someone will enlighten us.

    • Jim Nichols

      I posted the Octane eMag article and some links to your videos on

      I was very impressed with your work and you make all the Lotus owners(especially Exige owners like me) proud of what you have done.
      Please stop by and post some words on I am sure our community support is behind your effort and will enjoy all that you and the car can accomplish to make this a better world.
      PS. Whats the cost to convert my car?

        • keith gerrard

          Yea Dale.
          How much would it cost to convert his car?
          I have a complete factory set up including a machine shop available and needing work like that in Norfolk.


            • Chris Elliott

              Hi Keith, given that Technology Strategy Board put £400K in and Dale put £600K in … and if the second produced was to be half or a quarter of the price, I don’t think thats they sort of a affordable conversion in mind. Interesting that you have the facilities. I noted your comment on super capacitors which indicates you are looking ahead which is where this needs to be going. Would you be interested in giving a hint as to where abouts you are in Norfolk?

                • Chris Elliott

                  Sorry .. its was Kevin who mentioned Super Capacitors.

    • keith gerrard

      Not far from East Dereham Chris.
      I am definitely looking for potential EV production projects.

        • Chris Elliott

          Thanks Keith, Can’t find you on the net 50 engineering co’s in the area an Linkin shows Automotive Professional but no details but found a Vicar with the same name. Can you drop me an email to please to touch base.

    • Paul Wareing

      I have 3 new iPhone Apps called Quiz of the Week, we have 30 new Questions each week on Sport, Pop and News.

      We could do a question on this in the News Quiz of the Week, if so is there a feature or aspect of the vehicle you would like us to focus on?


      Paul Wareing

    • Dale Vince

      Hi Guys, I noticed quite a few comments about rare earth magnets here and there are some things that seem misunderstood with regards wind turbines.

      Firstly in respect of the turbines that ecotricity builds, ENERCON turbines – these are direct drive machines but they are NOT permanent magnet. These machines are electrically excited. There are many good reasons why ENERCON does it this way. Not least of which is efficiency and flexibility – electrical excitation can be varied to suit wind conditions, permanent magnets cannot be.

      The idea that most modern wind turbines use permanent magnets is also mistaken. Most of the new multi megawatt direct drive machines do, but they do not have such a big market share.

      One other thing I saw said above (Chris E I think it was) was that the ‘production carbon footprint of a HAWT is horrendous. It’s not. There are a few different figures out there but they only differ in value by a few months – it’s widely accepted that wind turbines repay the energy used in their manufacture (and therefore carbon) in around six months. Less in windier spots, more in less windy spots.

      That’s a hell of a rate of ‘energy/carbon payback’……:)


        • Chris E

          Hey Dale … there was a rumour like Morgan Freeman you had died in your sleep. Glad to see you are still around and know more than Paul. Who ‘thinks’ maybe. which will always invite a challenge.

          I didn’t say it wasn’t an excitable system. I said it uses Neo magnets and it does. And clear Magnetised Pole Pole Shoes. Quote: ‘The rotor consists of shaft, pole shoe of N pole, pole shoe of S pole, and tangential magnetized permanent magnet*. Character is that pole shoe of N pole, pole shoe of S pole are extended to same direction; and annular excitation bridge with excitation winding being embedded is setup between annular pole shoes at extended end of the pole shoes of rotor. Comparing with prior art, the invention possesses advantages of large magnetic density at air slot, high efficiency of electric excitation, short axial magnetic circuit’ Unquote.

          Don’t agree with you on the carbon footprint Dude. I think the figures have been manipluted as usual. I don’t think they include the transportation carbon footprint either. Nor does it include the dismantling, shiping and disposability/recycling carbon cost either. AND then there is the ECO footprint. It takes 62,600 gallons of water to make 1 ton of steel. Is that spring, lake or re-cycled water. It takes 1,851 gallons of water to refine 1 barrel of crude oil. Coal, wind or Oil powered electricity for the steel plant??

          What’s the shipping (Ship n HGV) carbon footprint cost from Enercon to your construction site? As I say I don’t think the carbon footprint covers everything. But the UK Gov figures say …
          (Taking a average between onshore and offshore turbines) they produce for EVERY KWh they EVER make … 4.85gCO2eq/kWh … say over 30 yrs operational life?

          Yes, it is one of the lowest carbon footprints when its too windy … and it is paying back. You know as well as I that you are stuck with them for the time been and as soon as you can go with more efficient VAWT you will. AS for Photovoltiac you are going with something with a higher footprint 58gCO2eq/kWh .. per KWh EVER made! AND a shorter operational life! Again I think that the carbon catch net isn’t big enough. So aren’t you moving away from your green goal a tad there Dale?

          Hey … just yanking your chain Dude payback for Simon screwing me around for two weeks!!!

          How did your ECOBonds work out? 🙂

            • Dale Vince

              Hi Chris, Nope I wake up each morning….:) so far anyway. (unless this is the Matrix….scary thought)

              I checked again with ENERCON and they tell me that you are wrong on this – all pole shoes are electrically excited with soft iron cores, there is no neodyne anywhere in their machines.

              That’s from the horses mouth. Not sure where you’re getting your info, but it’s wrong.

              With regards the carbon cost of windmills – the calculations I referred to do include transport, but not end of life re cycling.

              Using a blend of on shore and offshore will distort figures a bit – offshore costs twice as much as onshore to build, and will have e a far higher carbon/energy cost to build and install.

              Here’s a thought, if it takes 1800 gallons of water to refine one barrel of oil, that’s an investment if you ‘spend the oil’ building windmills – because you’ll get conservatively 40 times the energy back in it’s life time – that’s 40 times 1800 gallons of water saved.


              PS – EcoBonds went incredibly well, planning to write a post – as soon as I can….:)

                • Chris Elliott

                  Hey Dale … could be the Matrix … we won’t know til our membership gets cancelled. 🙂

                  Well, I stand corrected then, I was looking at the patents and technology needed in the process given their desire to reduce weight, plus the Indian connection. They are quiet secretive though, aren’t they with their Promo stuff.

                  I think without looking it up again that onshore was 4.65g and offshore 5.25g which accounted for the shipping pollution and Helicopters as much as construction.

                  I agree with you about Oil and if it was burned more efficiently then it would measure only 10 times the saving using wind, however it won’t and we are not just on a loser with it every way we turn but we are now been screwed for the privilege. Powerful people determine our destiny and if you were valued at 10 times your present figure it would not be enough to take them on if they focused on you. Reality is the only way we can overcome that greed/survival instinct call it what you will, is to offer a longer term alternative. I guess we are all trying to do that… and survive.

                  Stanley Meyer was offered a billion, when the US were paying 200 million a year for Gulf Oil. He turned it down and it cost him his life … and there thought the hand that did it ended the water powered car … but it didn’t die, it just took another course.

                  Good news about the EcoBonds I pushed them to quite a few people and particularly a certain Gentleman in Cambridge who is trying to preserve his estate and get more back out of his land. Hope he contacted you about solar

                  Onward and upward …

                    • Dale Vince

                      Hi Chris, All good, the difference is probably between what the patent is for and what ENERCON does.

                      Thanks for your support on our EcoBonds.

                      We’ll keep doing all we can….:)


                    • Chris Elliott

                      Hi Dale … 59 Days to the TT Races are you really going to entry a bike Dude? If so can we see some pictures. have you built your own gone with the Mavizen concern or gone with the American bike. Did you use any of the idea’s I gave your fisherman? lol. Iching to see your bike and colours. Who’s riding for you?

                      And hows your main production set up coming along? Did you get all the vacancies filled with good people? Got some one good on your QA team with great Kanban, Kaizen, Lean Sigma and ISO 9001 and 14001 QMS experience and tools? Last prod line I worked on we had a £1,000 a min cost if it stopped! Got all you energy capture in place. There were some missed opportunites on the new HQ design. Remember Water is the new Oil!



            • paul

              Hiya Chris,

              While it may be true that Dale knows more than me – it turns out I know more than you 😛

              Just pulling your (snow)chain 😉

              Here’s another interesting fact – Enercon were the victim of industrial espionage back in the day, and are only this year allowed to export their turbines to the US:

              “Enercon was prohibited from exporting their wind turbines to the US until 2010 [2] due to alleged infringement of U.S. Patent 5,083,039 [3]. Recently a cross patent agreement was agreed with its competitor General Electric. Enercon claims their intellectual property was stolen by Kenetech (US Windpower, Inc.) and patented in the US before they could do so. Kenetech made similar claims against Enercon. However, solid evidence has been presented that shows there was espionage against Enercon. According to the European Parliament; Kenetech seeking evidence for legal action against Enercon for breach of patent rights on the grounds that Enercon had obtained commercial secrets illegally. According to a NSA employee, detailed information concerning Enercon was passed on to Kenetech via ECHELON.[2][4] According to this report, the aim of the espionage against Enercon was the forwarding of details of Wobbens wind wheel to a US firm. The consequence was that the US firm patents the wind wheel before Wobben, resulting in a breach of patent rights. ”

              That might explain some of the ‘secrecy’ you associate with the company? 😉

                • Chris Elliott

                  Hiya Paul … That maybe true but then you may only think you do. :-))

                  Hey, just shaking your Xmas tree Dude to see what falls off 🙂

                  Actually it might interest you to know that when we weren’t living in a cardboard box int middle at royd, I used strip old motorcycles down and took to drawin exploded and cutout drawings of gearboxes.

                  Any road one day I were playing down’t woods watchin an Archimedes screw I’d re-invented (never having seen one) out of old paint tin lids and a broom hand, lifting watta outtat beck when I said to my GERMAN play mate and No.1 spanner holder, (who’s Dad was in the Army an Married a German lady an went back to live in Germany later) lets go up tat nook and use that old scaffoldin tube, those old paddles that just floated down’t street an Fubar’d me A’screw, connect em to that old bike wheel and the now de-commissioned broom handle, stick that thru that bit of oil’d drainpipe and stick a BSA RRT2 gearbox and clutch up tat other end, and if we knotch’t broom handle end, that’d drive clutch and we can put a chain drive tat magneto, run the wire from the two tin can telephone I’d made, and then electrocute a trout, cos we couldn’t afford a ball of string, and take it home far tea. Worked mint when’t wind wa blowin.

                  Shortly afterward I designed an made a DIRECT DRIVE version assisted by my little German friend and I cut out the gearbox (and it still didn’t use REE Neo’s (:-)) )

                  In time we went our seperate ways and my little friend went back to German and when he grew up… well thats where the bit you do know about comes in Paul, only what you didn’t know is that the ‘idea pinching’, started a long time before that! 🙂

                  Hey, as Dale says its all good … as long as mankind benefits!

                  (Please note. No animals were killed or maimed in the making of the above inventions, or honesty narrated story … well … actually the cat’s nose got a bit close to the magneto once and it wer a bit crossed eyed and its whiskers were a bit curly for a while, oh and a Badger got knocked out by a sail(paddle) once but that wer its own fault cos it wer trying to nick our wheel to build an hydro-electric dam or summat with a dodgy Beaver mate of his.)

                  Six degrees of separation Paul, ya just never know. 😉

                  Well, as my great great Uncle Charles who was fond of Xmas and ‘ritin used to say, Errr … That’s all Folks! Hmmm … or was that Bugs Bunny? 🙁 Whatever :-))

                  Wishing you all at Ecotricity (and blog contributors) a very Merry Xmas and may your medievally tossed icicle missiles miss anything important. 🙂

                    • paul

                      LOL – I think I lost a bauble 😉

                      Have a Merry Christmas yourself!

    • Jeffrey Lam

      Well done on the ecobonds!
      I did apply in the end but I decreased the amount I applied for in order to limit my exposure, but it appears I shouldn’t have bothered decreasing it as I won’t get my whole application anyway! Ah well.

      Great result for ecotricity in any case, and a great result for renewable energy! Look forward to hearing about and seeing more wind mills, sun mills and gas mills…

      Best regards

    • keith gerrard

      I thought it was common knowledge that America never originates ideas and only uses those from others outside America.
      I think the eco house idea owes more to Sir Barnes Wallis and the R100 airship and the wellington bomber than to anything else.

        • Chris Elliott

          Aye up Keith … where have you been?

          There is nothing new under the sun, so they say … just lateral thinking. 🙂

          Its very astute of you to draw the comparison with Barnes Wallis however there aren’t the 11 standardised components the R Series had, presently there is only one. And there is no rectilinear and non rectilinear framework in the conventional sense. And … is it not confined to the geodesic stereotype when the components are re-aligned. Other than that you are perfectly on track.

    • Chris Elliott

      Convergent evolution – global industrial revolution.

        • keih gerrard

          Yes Chris another supercar idea for an EV very smart.
          Unfortunately having spent most of my life involved in inovation in ic motor sport, all I see is yet another EV using off the shelf components and very little in the way of new ideas.

          EV technology although pre dating ic, has been kept firmly in its infant stage by vested interest in fossil fuel tchnology.
          It has a huge way to go before it gets back to its rightful place in real world application.

            • Chris Elliott

              Hey Keith … Happy New Year.

              I think now I have read up on Stanley Meyer hydrogen seperator and where he was going before he was knocked off that if it runs off sea water as he says it does it could well eclipse EV before its started a real comeback .. but then maybe not. Now for Kart racing, EV is be great because it would overcome many of the objections to having a Kart Racing track under your nose in suburbian and we could nurture more young Brit Racers, with an also cheaper form of racing … which I know you are also pushing.

                • keith gerrard

                  I do not see hydrogen as a workable vehicle energy prime mover for anywhere other than in space vehicles Chris.
                  Of course it may make a clean energy source for centralised electricity production, it all depends on what energy source is used to produce it in the first place.
                  I tried very hard in the past to establish a local kart track and was defeated by the souless NIMBY brigade so I am well aware of the problems Chris. I also tried to build a school based challenge for a yearly 24 hour kart race again NIMBYs.
                  Electric karts would help agreat deal but do not underestimate the power of greedy self motivated morons.

                    • Chris Elliott

                      Did you check out the equinox video’s on Stan Meyer’s water powered car Keith. I am building the capacitor powered alloy tube sperator with a friend at the moment. You should build one yourself to check it out and SirHoax has some interesting You Tube video’s on the theory of the cross over wave Stan generated.

                    • Chris Elliott

                      Or seperator … lol. Could do with an edit function on this Blog Dale 🙂

    • Pete Greaves

      There’s some very interesting work going on with lithium air batteries at Newcastle University. The projected energy density for production cells (which are a long way off) is 3.6MJ/kgcompared to petrol which I believe is about 4.4MJ/kg and lithium ion batteries at about 0.36-0.9MJ/kg. The next generation nemesis might be able to do 1000 miles on a charge!

    • keith gerrard

      I am not keen on a direct comparison between batteries and petrol using energy density Pete.
      To release that energy in petrol for useful work, it has to be converted into heat which drives an internal combustion engine and drive train a very inefficient, heavy and poluting method of traction.
      Electric traction from batteries is clean and far more efficient.
      There would also be no range problem if a decent charging infra structure was developed.
      Can you re-charge a petrol/diesel car at home over night-No.
      Can you re-charge a petrol/diesel car in a super market or at your place of work-No.
      It is only because we have been forced to accept a filthy inefficient liquid fuel infra structure for the benefit of greedy criminals fo 200 years. This is why we cannot see the possibilities to be had from electric traction. BRAINWASHING!
      There were practical electric cars in the late 1890s, I wish people would accept this fact.

        • Chris Elliott
            • keith gerrard

              Thanks Chris.
              I was aware of this development and the Ingo car.
              It could certainly reduce liquid fuel use using the ic engine. Unfortunately the motor industry will shy away from the huge changes needed in their production set ups to bring it to the public. By the time it was in production, electric traction will be the norm anyway.
              Car makers will prefer ‘conventional’ hybrids to keep the machines working.
              The main objection is that it still burns fossil fuels, unless built with an electric energy storage and motor system and of course the question then, is why not use electric for traction anyway, why the hydrolics?
              I am a supporter of hydrolic transmission systems in heavy plant and complex equipment and there is definitely an application in wind turbine systems and other energy capture devices.

                • Chris Elliott

                  Hi Keith … you are probably right that electric drives will be de rigeur before it gets into prouction. It just struck me that electric systems will have to be fitted with a soft start drive system like some drill and the hydrostatic system coupled a and electric energy and capture system would be a softer drive system.

                  Funny you should mention their wind application as I have already drawn several systems up using that solely or in combinations, as a way of overcoming some of the inherent problems with the more efficent and publicably acceptable VAWT’s both large and micro.

        • Jeffrey Lam

          Hi Keith
          I think you’re missing the point of what Pete Greaves is saying. He’s saying that Lithium air batteries store up to 10 times more energy per kg than Lithium ion batteries, and it happens to be more comparable to petrol.
          The tone of his post suggests he is not making the point that petrol energy density is higher than that of batteries.


            • keith gerrard

              I just see a comparison on energy density to be a very minor part of the development potential.
              I do of course see the potential of lithium air batteries and I am following this closely.
              However, I see no problem with electric cars at this moment in time anyway.
              It is the energy distribution infra structure that needs major change, not the actual vehicles or any improvements to batteries.
              Of course there are major economic problems to overcome and huge improvements needed in re-cycling technology.

    • Thomas - Electric Car

      Lithium air offers really a high potential. Yet this technologie is at the beginning. The first I heard in context with those batteries was that the were not able to be recharged, which would have limited their suitability for electric cars a lot. Yet, a couple of days ago I read about lithium air batteries which are developed as secondary batteries, which means that the can be recharged, which would be great for electric mobility.

    • Jonny Holt

      Hello Dale et al,

      I have just seen this and thought you might be interested …

      Admittedly it doesn’t have the same design and PR polish (or budget) that Nemesis has benefitted from – but driving a kite powered car on the public highway has got to be high on the list of 1,000 things to do before you die – if not actually while you die.

      Best regards,


    • David Buttery

      I hear you are coming to this year’s IOM TT with an electric racing bike. Good luck and all that but if you have a little spare time come and see us at Silverdale Glen about 3 m from the airport. We have installed an ice cream factory in a 300yr old water mill and would like to use the lake & sluice to generate electricity. The mill gear all works but is probably asking to much of it to hook up to a genny. Some advice on how we might produce the worlds only hydro electric ice cream would be appreciated.



    • Chris Elliott

      Hi David … Are you one and the same DB who ran for a seat at the Keys a couple of times in the last decade? I have been trying to locate you on an aerial view. I can see lakes and an old quarry to the West of the Abbey and Silverdale Rd to the North but no windmill or Lake? Tourist bumf talks of a boating lake too in the Glen? Can you drop me an email to please?



    • Anthony Ratcliffe

      Has anyone any good or bad points about the Vauxhall Ampera?
      I’m seriously thinking about buying one next year as 99% of our journeys are less than 20 miles, so would be using the electric batteries and not the petrol engine, but could still do long journeys when needed, as we only have one car between the 2 of us as I walk to and from work!

    • Daniel Flounders

      Cost of that car could have built a few more windmills I bet!
      Rather than creating a sports car, wouldn’t you have been better building a more realistic family car?

      Or is this simply to show off… toys for the boys? When it’s finished you could maybe drive it to the golf course for a round or two, thats if you can squeeze your clubs in it somewhere!

        • paul

          Hi Daniel – nope – it would not come close to paying for a windmill.

          And Dale hates golf I’ve been reliably informed 😉

    • Chris Elliott

      Well said … But … Careful Daniel you’ll get some online manager come along and start calling you a Troll and he’ll be supported by a number of psuedo eco-warriors (customers)who have bought into Dale Vince’s spinning Publicity Machine. Satisfyingly, I have just got a reply from my MP assuring me they won’t be getting their own way on the Solar Farms and draining FIT’s meant for taxpayers, who have already handed them more than enough. If Dale Vince was true to his word he would be putting single wind turbines up in suitable villages as the Scots did and sharing in the pay back over a period, as a co-operative. But they have no time for those, he’s been swallowed up by the fast buck. Why fend off £100 million pound offers every month when they could be billion pound offers!!!! A long way from a better world dream in a caravan on a hillside existance.

    • Daniel Flounders

      Regardless of ones opinion on the morality of ecotricity, moreover it’s founder, I ask the question;

      Where do you want your money to go?

      a) The fat cats
      b) The fatter cats

      First and foremost ecotricity is a business, and, like all other businesses, is designed to make money. What is done with that money is of great importance and relevance to ecotricity’s customers, for no other reason than they are sold a product on the basis of some very bold promises and claims.

      ecotricity should be transparent to the core, otherwise scepticism will become rife and there small 46000 customers could disappear far quicker than they appeared.

      Finally, ecotricity should also consider carefully the projects they invest in.
      I would sure like to see the financials for building that car…..

      So come on, how many millions are we talking here and how do you plan on taking what you have learnt and developing it into cars of the future! I’m so interested you wouldn’t believe….

    • Anthony

      Daniel, what value would you put on the publicity the car has generated and the lifting of Ecotricity’s profile?
      I remember Dale listing somewhere £750,000 not the millions you suggest.
      I do agree that the FIT’s would be better spent on encouraging customers to get solar PV fitted and not going to large profit making companies, but I can live with that if the net effect is more solar power generation in the UK.

    • Chris Elliott

      The taxpayers paid £400,000 to lift Mr Vince’s profile. Great result for him. I have never been able to get that soprt of free advertising budget. The publicity was no doubt very helpful in sell the bonds for the next stage development!

      The issue is NOT Solar is Micro RE in general! We live on an Island but its not Cyprus its the UK. Spin can mislead the gullible just as Statistics have always done the same along with the Emperors New clothes! Wait for it … =)

      Why is Solar been favoured? There is something corrupt about micro wind not getting the same deal! DECC, Gemserve and MCS are all actively suppressing Micro Wind … Why? Okay winds not great everywhere but spend a day on the south coast like Eastbourne, Hastings, Folkestone or Margate where 90 Sea Turbines live and tell me on most days theer is a stronger argumnet for solar Cough Bullsh*tCough Where inbalance occurs its usually because someone somewhere has stacked it in their favour. Fact of life, cough! Time for a cahnge then, Daniel Google Stanley Meyers Water Car and read as much as you can. You don’t have to wait for something that isn’t going to happen here, the patents are pretty much open now you can built the same convertor and motor as Stan Meyer did without his partriotic sacrifice to a Nation and world who was more interested … and still is … in money. Footnote about Cyprus, for rthe forst time in its hgistory ot is short of water. Try bulk storing water in the UK and see how fast the water board(who as the rights by law to every drop!) gets you fined. Like I said … Time for a change!

    • Chris Elliott

      Oops … that got away without the spell check .. =)

      The taxpayers paid £400,000 to lift Mr Vince’s profile. Great result for him. I have never been able to get that sort of free advertising budget. The publicity was no doubt also very helpful in sell the Bonds for the next stage development!

      The issue is NOT Solar it is Micro RE in general!

      We live on an Island but its not Cyprus its the UK.

      Spin can mislead the gullible just as Statistics have always done along with the Emperors New clothes! Wait for it … =)

      Why is Solar been favoured? There is something corrupt about micro wind not getting the same deal! DECC, Gemserve and MCS are all actively suppressing Micro Wind … Why?

      Okay winds not great everywhere but spend a day on the south coast like Eastbourne, Hastings, Folkestone or Margate where 90 Sea Turbines live and tell me on most days there is a stronger argument for solar CoughBullsh*tCough!

      Where inbalance occurs its usually because someone somewhere has stacked it in their favour. Fact of life, cough! Time for a change then!

      Daniel Google Stanley Meyer’s Water Car and read as much as you can. You don’t have to wait for something that isn’t going to happen here, the patents are pretty much open now you can built the same convertor and motor as Stan Meyer did without his partriotic sacrifice to a Nation and World who was more interested … and still is … in money.

      Footnote about Cyprus, for the first time in its history it is short of water!!!

      Try bulk storing water in the UK and see how fast the water board(who as the rights by law to every drop!) gets you fined. Like I said … Time for a change!